7 ms·

Matrix

DocTomoe 4y ago
It is my understanding that this mostly works with rooms/channels over bridges - not with individual, 1-on-1 communication. Do you have a hint how to set this up?
- up6w6 4y ago
  Most bridges work by running a program that will emulate a client. For example, with Telegram/Whatsapp/Signal you will authenticate the bridge bot using a qr-code just like if you were authenticating on a computer. Also see [1], they have every bridge's features well documented. [1] https://matrix.org/bridges/ https://matrix.org/bridges/
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  I have set up a bridge on my own server. I bridge 1-on-1 chats and group chats equally and have set up spaces to separate the different clients for ease of overview. Bridging chats of different technologies doesn't work well/at all (i.e. Signal bridge + WhatsApp bridge users in a single room) but bridging external chats (DM or group) into Matrix works very well. Some services need a daemon running on a phone (i.e. WhatsApp) and that's very annoying, but where possible these bridges all run in the cloud. If you trust third parties, you can also go the easy route by getting a subscription from EMS (https://element.io/matrix-services/ems-pricing https://element.io/matrix-services/ems-pricing) or Beeper (https://www.beeper.com/ https://www.beeper.com/). I personally prefer to keep my messages and encryption keys on devices I control, but others prefer to let someone else take care of it all and I respect that. It's relatively straight-forward to set up a bridging server if you're comfortable with Docker and YAML files. You can read how to set up a Matrix server here: https://matrix.org/docs/guides/free-small-matrix-server https://matrix.org/docs/guides/free-small-matrix-server and here: https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/blob/master/docs/README.md https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/b... If you use the Ansible playbook, all you should really need to do is run through the setup, fire up a Matrix client, start chats with bot accounts, and follow the instructions on the guide (usually sending /login to a bot and authenticating your account with whatever service you're bridging). Your Matrix account doesn't have to be on the same server as your bridges, which is a setup some seem to prefer. You can set up a Matrix server just for bridging so that you don't need to set up all the VoIP features and performance tricks while keeping your own server dedicated to just bridging stuff. This does break some nice features (i.e. double puppeting, a bridge feature) but it also makes your own server less of a single point of failure if you ever do get talking on Matrix.
angry_octet 4y ago
Matrix has fundamental security problems that they seem unwilling to fix. Almost a polar opposite to Signal.
- derbOac 4y ago
  What security problems? Genuinely curious, not trying to be antagonistic.
  - angry_octet 4y ago
    Commentry from tptacek: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/1575259743278563329 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/1575259743278563329 on this paper: https://nebuchadnezzar-megolm.github.io/ https://nebuchadnezzar-megolm.github.io/
    - derbOac 4y ago
      Thanks. Worth reading the response from Matrix as well (https://matrix.org/blog/category/security https://matrix.org/blog/category/security). My first reactions are to wonder how many of these issues are associated with federated (as opposed to fundamentally decentralized) group chat in general. Matrix seems to be taking the position that some of these issues ultimately relate to trust vs lack thereof in the homeserver as a bottleneck. I also wondered if there was a good security model for federated or decentralized group chat at all at the moment. I can't remember offhand if Briar was adding groups or not, but that's not federated.
    - woojoo666 4y ago
      What do you mean by "unwilling to fix"? They published a blog post addressing the exact issues you brought up. https://matrix.org/blog/2022/09/28/upgrade-now-to-address-encryption-vulns-in-matrix-sdks-and-clients https://matrix.org/blog/2022/09/28/upgrade-now-to-address-en...
      - angry_octet 4y ago
        They don't, and they haven't. The flaws, like being able to add servers without every participant trusting them, require a deeper redesign.

Matrix

It is my understanding that this mostly works with rooms/channels over bridges - not with individual, 1-on-1 communication. Do you have a hint how to set this up?

up6w6 4y ago
Most bridges work by running a program that will emulate a client. For example, with Telegram/Whatsapp/Signal you will authenticate the bridge bot using a qr-code just like if you were authenticating on a computer. Also see [1], they have every bridge's features well documented. [1] https://matrix.org/bridges/ https://matrix.org/bridges/
jeroenhd 4y ago
I have set up a bridge on my own server. I bridge 1-on-1 chats and group chats equally and have set up spaces to separate the different clients for ease of overview. Bridging chats of different technologies doesn't work well/at all (i.e. Signal bridge + WhatsApp bridge users in a single room) but bridging external chats (DM or group) into Matrix works very well. Some services need a daemon running on a phone (i.e. WhatsApp) and that's very annoying, but where possible these bridges all run in the cloud. If you trust third parties, you can also go the easy route by getting a subscription from EMS (https://element.io/matrix-services/ems-pricing https://element.io/matrix-services/ems-pricing) or Beeper (https://www.beeper.com/ https://www.beeper.com/). I personally prefer to keep my messages and encryption keys on devices I control, but others prefer to let someone else take care of it all and I respect that. It's relatively straight-forward to set up a bridging server if you're comfortable with Docker and YAML files. You can read how to set up a Matrix server here: https://matrix.org/docs/guides/free-small-matrix-server https://matrix.org/docs/guides/free-small-matrix-server and here: https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/blob/master/docs/README.md https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/b... If you use the Ansible playbook, all you should really need to do is run through the setup, fire up a Matrix client, start chats with bot accounts, and follow the instructions on the guide (usually sending /login to a bot and authenticating your account with whatever service you're bridging). Your Matrix account doesn't have to be on the same server as your bridges, which is a setup some seem to prefer. You can set up a Matrix server just for bridging so that you don't need to set up all the VoIP features and performance tricks while keeping your own server dedicated to just bridging stuff. This does break some nice features (i.e. double puppeting, a bridge feature) but it also makes your own server less of a single point of failure if you ever do get talking on Matrix.

angry_octet 4y ago

Matrix has fundamental security problems that they seem unwilling to fix. Almost a polar opposite to Signal.

derbOac 4y ago
What security problems? Genuinely curious, not trying to be antagonistic.
- angry_octet 4y ago
  Commentry from tptacek: https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/1575259743278563329 https://twitter.com/tqbf/status/1575259743278563329 on this paper: https://nebuchadnezzar-megolm.github.io/ https://nebuchadnezzar-megolm.github.io/
  - derbOac 4y ago
    Thanks. Worth reading the response from Matrix as well (https://matrix.org/blog/category/security https://matrix.org/blog/category/security). My first reactions are to wonder how many of these issues are associated with federated (as opposed to fundamentally decentralized) group chat in general. Matrix seems to be taking the position that some of these issues ultimately relate to trust vs lack thereof in the homeserver as a bottleneck. I also wondered if there was a good security model for federated or decentralized group chat at all at the moment. I can't remember offhand if Briar was adding groups or not, but that's not federated.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    What do you mean by "unwilling to fix"? They published a blog post addressing the exact issues you brought up. https://matrix.org/blog/2022/09/28/upgrade-now-to-address-encryption-vulns-in-matrix-sdks-and-clients https://matrix.org/blog/2022/09/28/upgrade-now-to-address-en...
    - angry_octet 4y ago
      They don't, and they haven't. The flaws, like being able to add servers without every participant trusting them, require a deeper redesign.