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I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but

I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in. Paradoxically, that releases the door to new kinds of success you couldn't imagine before. The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows.

wesammikhail 4y ago
> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major". > The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. What kinda self-serving sophistry is this? I can easily argue that the world would benefit a whole lot more if people remained childishly curious. It is the moment you let go of that child inside that you die if you ask me. Stay curious, stay hungry and keep improving. That's just a no-brainer. The idea that dropping ambitions is somehow a transformative experience to strive toward is such a weird thing to say. > Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows. What perspectives are these exactly? this reads to me like self-aggrandizing at best. Are you gonna tell me that people can't possibly have an understanding for "what truly matters in life" unless they have kids? What about the perspective you lose by becoming a parent and giving up on your dreams? It is a trade-off you are making. You are losing one perspective to gain another. But the idea that "people who chose otherwise will surely find regret" is just laughable. How could you possibly know that? You can't really run the experiment N times to compare the results? I can literally copy the text of your post and make the opposite argument. In summary, let me see if I got this right: expanding your horizons by constantly learning and _acquiring new perspectives_ is considered a childish ambition that must be shed in order to metamorph into a parent so that you can take advantage of your newly _acquired perspective_... How do you square this circle exactly?
- mattgperry 4y ago
  > All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major". Meh. I'm married, bought multiple houses, moved country. I don't know how many major life decisions you can make but none of them have changed me in the way merely expecting a child already has. I expect when they're born will reveal the next 90% of that transition.
  - neeleshs 4y ago
    Hmm.. I've done all that and have a child and lost dear ones. And none of that has really changed me as a person, but each one has had a profound impact on my life (except buying a house). As the parent comment says, they are just different and everyone has their own way of processing major events.
adrianN 4y ago
You go from worrying about your own success to worrying about the success of your offspring.
theodric 4y ago
So the antidote to wanting to do interesting things and change the world is to give up on your ambition, procreate, and raise a new generation of people to go through the same cycle of ambition, despair, and duty? That sounds like an incredibly bleak world to live in.
- nickd2001 4y ago
  How about the argument that your own ambition is put on hold temporarily (possibly for a decade or more, but does that matter?), not quashed, and your kids may change the world in ways that never would have happened had they not been born?
  - theodric 4y ago
    It comes down to gambling ~$500k and many years' time to make a new human who will themselves then have to gamble money and time to change the world, or investing that money and time into directly trying to influence reality myself. If I want something done right, I will do it myself, and not burden my notional kid with the obligation. Perhaps they'd just want to surf or bum around Spain, anyway.
    - nickd2001 4y ago
      When I said about kids "changing the world" I meant in the broadest possible sense. If they're surfing and bumming around Spain, why not? If they make some other people happy as well as themselves whilst doing so, that's gotta be good right? I think many people on HN are rather focused an "achieving great things", whatever that may be, which can involve starting companies or making a lot of money which is hardly a guaranteed route to happiness in fact often the opposite. So, as a happy parent who has enjoyed adventures and travelling and career to some extent etc before having a family, I just share my experience that having kids gives a lot of joy and purpose and gives something to the world, and that other things many of us strongly want to do when we're younger don't always deliver really in terms of purpose and fulfilment. So, don't rush to have kids but don't dismiss it either ;) There's a compromise. :). PS not sure where you get the $500k from. Maybe it more costly in the US.. Kids are happy without growing up in a rich household. Long as they're fed , housed , clothed, have some fun things to do. They don't need trust funds, top notch college, competitive sports etc. Sure a lot of people think they do but a lot of people think that's nonsense
bradlys 4y ago
> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in. All the parents in Silicon Valley would like to have a word with you. Trust me - having kids doesn’t dissuade everyone from pursuing riches as you seem to claim. If anything - I see people stress harder than before because now they have to succeed and so do their children. The families who don’t stress as much are those who already had success - they already got their tens of millions.
foreigner 4y ago
LOL I replaced my old worries and anxieties with exciting new worries and anxieties.
- tasuki 4y ago
  Same! The old worries and anxieties seem so trivial now. And the new worries and anxieties all seem So Very Important.
smikhanov 4y ago
Fantastic comment, totally matches my perspective as a father of three. Not letting your old self go leads to all sorts of problems, severes your relationship with both your child and your spouse, and is a sure way to remain unhappy. I see a lot of this in new parent families around. Original post mentions staying in touch with other parents who are in the same situation as yourself, and it indeed helps a lot — eventually everyone start chatting about things like children’s sleep problems, chickenpox, school fees, car seat brands, or whatever, which helps normalizing the difficulty you’re going through. Trying hard to hang out with your old childless friends, on the other hand (if you can afford their schedule), is a road to hell.
asah 4y ago
So all non-parenting ambitious are "childish" ? All non-parents will regret the decision? Lol.
- kamlaserbeam 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure this is referring to the scenario where you either have kids or are expecting kids soon. Only once you become a parent do those non-parenting ambitions seem childish.
  - asah 4y ago
    ...so if you never expect to have kids, then your (by definition) "non-parenting ambitions seem childish" ? Also, if parents don't feel that way, are they lesser parents?
markles 4y ago
This post is so condescending. You not only tell people their ambitions outside of raising children are childish, but then go on to exclaim how much they'll regret by not having children because of some advantageous perspective change. This is worse than listening to the rust evangelicals.
- snowwrestler 4y ago
  The post is entirely about parents, including the last paragraph. There’s no commentary at all about people who choose not to have kids. To rephrase the core message: once one decides to become a parent (the kid is born, it’s irreversible), one has access to opportunities for new types of experiences and emotional fulfillment. Acknowledging that, and taking advantage of it, is a powerful way to have a positive experience as a parent. Here’s an analogy: you decide to move from an apartment in the city to a nice house out near the mountains. At the nice new house, you realize you can’t order in Thai food, you can’t pop down to the corner store for a coffee and muffin, you can’t decide to go see a show at the last minute. A lot of the conveniences and advantages of the big city are gone. But you can see the stars at night. You can walk in the woods and see deer. You can be mountain biking or skiing in 30 minutes from your door. New opportunities, different experiences are there for you. Accessing and appreciating those experiences is the key to enjoying your new living arrangements. Some people miss the old city stuff too much, or under-appreciate the new stuff, and they move back closer to the city after a year or two. Stepping out of the metaphor… that’s not really an option with a kid. Parenthood is a decision you can’t reverse. So it’s even more important to work on finding and enjoying what is new and different in life as a parent. That does not imply that everyone should have kids. More like: advice for those who already do.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    I liked your metaphor. That's a good take.
sfpotter 4y ago
Second this comment... My wife and I recently had our first, and so far this is the perspective I've been trying to adopt, which has helped. It's not like you lose your ambitions completely, but there are new constraints. You no longer get to indulge in the excesses of youth, but it's OK, because taking care of a new life is simply a significantly higher priority. It's a liberating feeling. I was worried before having a kid that I would be so bogged down with childcare that it would be impossible for me to get anything done at work. But I heard from a number of people that after having kids they were forced to develop better time-management skills. This has definitely been happening for me. I find it much easier to stay on task when I'm working on something, since I know the time available is so limited. After a while, the impulse to experiment and be free-wheeling has diminished a bit, and I've had fun purposefully moving through things. The impulse "stay up all night and play" is definitely a youthful one. People want to stay young forever, which is certainly one way to go, but it's important to understand that there are real reasons many people are happy to move on to the next phase of life where they give those things up.
joshcanhelp 4y ago
> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. Agree 100% by adding “can” in there. The OP’s feelings are very similar to my own early on. I still have those nagging thoughts now and then but I know now what to focus on. Fact is, young children are thankless, selfish, and inconsiderate little parasites that could give 2 shits about their parents desires. The parents that can look past all that and see the little spots of joy, look forward to the fun stuff like sharing a hobby, and letting go of your original picture of life seem to have the best experience with it. That perspective change is NOT guaranteed, though. I know plenty of parents who seemed to naturally have this figured out right away. It’s taken me several years to even just see the light but I’m getting it now. We had a particularly tough first kid but she’s grown out of a lot of those challenges and we’re finding it easier to find the fun stuff together.

wesammikhail 4y ago

> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major". > The parent who can let go of their old self gracefully, and drop many ambitions (which in retrospect seem childish) is able to transform. What kinda self-serving sophistry is this? I can easily argue that the world would benefit a whole lot more if people remained childishly curious. It is the moment you let go of that child inside that you die if you ask me. Stay curious, stay hungry and keep improving. That's just a no-brainer. The idea that dropping ambitions is somehow a transformative experience to strive toward is such a weird thing to say. > Those who cling to the desire to remain "able to stay up all night playing with new technologies" will surely find regret and fail to take advantage of the enormous perspective change that parenthood bestows. What perspectives are these exactly? this reads to me like self-aggrandizing at best. Are you gonna tell me that people can't possibly have an understanding for "what truly matters in life" unless they have kids? What about the perspective you lose by becoming a parent and giving up on your dreams? It is a trade-off you are making. You are losing one perspective to gain another. But the idea that "people who chose otherwise will surely find regret" is just laughable. How could you possibly know that? You can't really run the experiment N times to compare the results? I can literally copy the text of your post and make the opposite argument. In summary, let me see if I got this right: expanding your horizons by constantly learning and _acquiring new perspectives_ is considered a childish ambition that must be shed in order to metamorph into a parent so that you can take advantage of your newly _acquired perspective_... How do you square this circle exactly?

mattgperry 4y ago
> All major life decisions you make changes who you are. That's what makes them "major". Meh. I'm married, bought multiple houses, moved country. I don't know how many major life decisions you can make but none of them have changed me in the way merely expecting a child already has. I expect when they're born will reveal the next 90% of that transition.
- neeleshs 4y ago
  Hmm.. I've done all that and have a child and lost dear ones. And none of that has really changed me as a person, but each one has had a profound impact on my life (except buying a house). As the parent comment says, they are just different and everyone has their own way of processing major events.

adrianN 4y ago

You go from worrying about your own success to worrying about the success of your offspring.

theodric 4y ago

So the antidote to wanting to do interesting things and change the world is to give up on your ambition, procreate, and raise a new generation of people to go through the same cycle of ambition, despair, and duty? That sounds like an incredibly bleak world to live in.

nickd2001 4y ago
How about the argument that your own ambition is put on hold temporarily (possibly for a decade or more, but does that matter?), not quashed, and your kids may change the world in ways that never would have happened had they not been born?
- theodric 4y ago
  It comes down to gambling ~$500k and many years' time to make a new human who will themselves then have to gamble money and time to change the world, or investing that money and time into directly trying to influence reality myself. If I want something done right, I will do it myself, and not burden my notional kid with the obligation. Perhaps they'd just want to surf or bum around Spain, anyway.
  - nickd2001 4y ago
    When I said about kids "changing the world" I meant in the broadest possible sense. If they're surfing and bumming around Spain, why not? If they make some other people happy as well as themselves whilst doing so, that's gotta be good right? I think many people on HN are rather focused an "achieving great things", whatever that may be, which can involve starting companies or making a lot of money which is hardly a guaranteed route to happiness in fact often the opposite. So, as a happy parent who has enjoyed adventures and travelling and career to some extent etc before having a family, I just share my experience that having kids gives a lot of joy and purpose and gives something to the world, and that other things many of us strongly want to do when we're younger don't always deliver really in terms of purpose and fulfilment. So, don't rush to have kids but don't dismiss it either ;) There's a compromise. :). PS not sure where you get the $500k from. Maybe it more costly in the US.. Kids are happy without growing up in a rich household. Long as they're fed , housed , clothed, have some fun things to do. They don't need trust funds, top notch college, competitive sports etc. Sure a lot of people think they do but a lot of people think that's nonsense

bradlys 4y ago

> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. It's the antidote to all the worries and anxiety you had about success and coping before, but now don't have time to indulge in. All the parents in Silicon Valley would like to have a word with you. Trust me - having kids doesn’t dissuade everyone from pursuing riches as you seem to claim. If anything - I see people stress harder than before because now they have to succeed and so do their children. The families who don’t stress as much are those who already had success - they already got their tens of millions.

foreigner 4y ago

LOL I replaced my old worries and anxieties with exciting new worries and anxieties.

tasuki 4y ago
Same! The old worries and anxieties seem so trivial now. And the new worries and anxieties all seem So Very Important.

smikhanov 4y ago

Fantastic comment, totally matches my perspective as a father of three. Not letting your old self go leads to all sorts of problems, severes your relationship with both your child and your spouse, and is a sure way to remain unhappy. I see a lot of this in new parent families around. Original post mentions staying in touch with other parents who are in the same situation as yourself, and it indeed helps a lot — eventually everyone start chatting about things like children’s sleep problems, chickenpox, school fees, car seat brands, or whatever, which helps normalizing the difficulty you’re going through. Trying hard to hang out with your old childless friends, on the other hand (if you can afford their schedule), is a road to hell.

asah 4y ago

So all non-parenting ambitious are "childish" ? All non-parents will regret the decision? Lol.

kamlaserbeam 4y ago
I'm pretty sure this is referring to the scenario where you either have kids or are expecting kids soon. Only once you become a parent do those non-parenting ambitions seem childish.
- asah 4y ago
  ...so if you never expect to have kids, then your (by definition) "non-parenting ambitions seem childish" ? Also, if parents don't feel that way, are they lesser parents?

markles 4y ago

This post is so condescending. You not only tell people their ambitions outside of raising children are childish, but then go on to exclaim how much they'll regret by not having children because of some advantageous perspective change. This is worse than listening to the rust evangelicals.

snowwrestler 4y ago
The post is entirely about parents, including the last paragraph. There’s no commentary at all about people who choose not to have kids. To rephrase the core message: once one decides to become a parent (the kid is born, it’s irreversible), one has access to opportunities for new types of experiences and emotional fulfillment. Acknowledging that, and taking advantage of it, is a powerful way to have a positive experience as a parent. Here’s an analogy: you decide to move from an apartment in the city to a nice house out near the mountains. At the nice new house, you realize you can’t order in Thai food, you can’t pop down to the corner store for a coffee and muffin, you can’t decide to go see a show at the last minute. A lot of the conveniences and advantages of the big city are gone. But you can see the stars at night. You can walk in the woods and see deer. You can be mountain biking or skiing in 30 minutes from your door. New opportunities, different experiences are there for you. Accessing and appreciating those experiences is the key to enjoying your new living arrangements. Some people miss the old city stuff too much, or under-appreciate the new stuff, and they move back closer to the city after a year or two. Stepping out of the metaphor… that’s not really an option with a kid. Parenthood is a decision you can’t reverse. So it’s even more important to work on finding and enjoying what is new and different in life as a parent. That does not imply that everyone should have kids. More like: advice for those who already do.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  I liked your metaphor. That's a good take.

sfpotter 4y ago

Second this comment... My wife and I recently had our first, and so far this is the perspective I've been trying to adopt, which has helped. It's not like you lose your ambitions completely, but there are new constraints. You no longer get to indulge in the excesses of youth, but it's OK, because taking care of a new life is simply a significantly higher priority. It's a liberating feeling. I was worried before having a kid that I would be so bogged down with childcare that it would be impossible for me to get anything done at work. But I heard from a number of people that after having kids they were forced to develop better time-management skills. This has definitely been happening for me. I find it much easier to stay on task when I'm working on something, since I know the time available is so limited. After a while, the impulse to experiment and be free-wheeling has diminished a bit, and I've had fun purposefully moving through things. The impulse "stay up all night and play" is definitely a youthful one. People want to stay young forever, which is certainly one way to go, but it's important to understand that there are real reasons many people are happy to move on to the next phase of life where they give those things up.

joshcanhelp 4y ago

> I think that becoming a parent fundamentally changes who you are. Agree 100% by adding “can” in there. The OP’s feelings are very similar to my own early on. I still have those nagging thoughts now and then but I know now what to focus on. Fact is, young children are thankless, selfish, and inconsiderate little parasites that could give 2 shits about their parents desires. The parents that can look past all that and see the little spots of joy, look forward to the fun stuff like sharing a hobby, and letting go of your original picture of life seem to have the best experience with it. That perspective change is NOT guaranteed, though. I know plenty of parents who seemed to naturally have this figured out right away. It’s taken me several years to even just see the light but I’m getting it now. We had a particularly tough first kid but she’s grown out of a lot of those challenges and we’re finding it easier to find the fun stuff together.