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Did your little hissy fit feel good? I hope so, because other than "software should never ever change, doubly so if the documentation isn't updated" I got abso

by cbs 15y ago

Did your little hissy fit feel good? I hope so, because other than "software should never ever change, doubly so if the documentation isn't updated" I got absolutely nothing from that post. An update changed something, the documentation didn't have the answer so you checked with the source. Welcome to linux. Actually, welcome to the world of software. Did you at least submit a bug report?

Karunamon 15y ago
>I hope so, because other than "software should never ever change, doubly so if the documentation isn't updated" I got absolutely nothing from that post. Seeing as how I share, almost verbatim, the author's rage, allow me to break it down into a sentence or two: What possible benefit was there from overcomplicating the bloody MOTD file? I don't see anything but complexity for complexity's sake.
- cbs 15y ago
  What possible benefit was there from overcomplicating the bloody MOTD file? I dunno, but does it really matter? If the motd mattered anything to me, I would have been aware of the change. I was blindsided by this change too and one day, like years ago, I noticed that the motd wasn't working as I expected and reset itself. I did (something to the effect of) this: $ ls -l /etc/motd* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2008-09-23 21:44 /etc/motd -> /var/run/motd -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-06-14 15:01 /etc/motd.tail Then I thought "oh I see what they did there", dropped a banner in motd.tail and moved on with life. Wow, yeah, 2 and a half years ago. Didn't care then, still don't care now.
- jsight 15y ago
  Didn't these changes make the addition of dynamic content to the MOTD really trivial? That seems compatible with Ubuntu's mission to me. It sounds to me like this whole rant could have been replaced with a bug report on the documentation in Launchpad.
- nknight 15y ago
  I happen to like being informed, when I SSH into my server, that there are some package updates available. I happen to like a quick status check popping up for me to either look at or just ignore at my pleasure, especially since 99% of the time, the first thing I do when I log into a server is do exactly the sort of status check available in the Ubuntu MOTD. There are benefits. That you don't consider them worthwhile is fine, but you don't need to go apoplectic about it.
  - lysium 15y ago
    Why don't you run a script in your ~/.bash_login file (or whatever file your shell uses)?
    - nknight 15y ago
      I could. Or I could just look at the thing they already did for me. Much like I could create a bootloader configuration when I install Ubuntu, but that's already done for me. There are a lot of things we could do on our own. Sometimes we don't have to. Sometimes, some set of people would prefer we did have to, but that doesn't mean we all have to acquiesce to their desires.
      - Karunamon 15y ago
        The MOTD is for the MOTD, and bashrc is for things to be launched on login. This seems to be a very blatant example of scope creep.
  - moe 15y ago
    That's a valid concern - but then by all means make it an optional package. Linux is modular, there is absolutely no reason to mess with core-stuff like that and not provide a simple way to revert to normal.
    - nknight 15y ago
      My point is, who are you to decide how "Linux" is supposed to behave by default? Why do you get veto power over what should be "optional"? A choice has been made for Ubuntu's behavior. Other distributions are free to make their own choices. If you find Ubuntu's choice disagreeable, you can file a bug and try to change it, or you can change it for yourself on your own system, or you can just live with it, or you can change distributions. You can even fork Ubuntu and make just this change, if you like. You do have that choice. Getting mad because Ubuntu's choices are different from choices you might make is just silly.
- cinch 15y ago
  yep. why make it complicated when one could, for example, the admin can simply overwrite the motd from /etc/rc.local, instead of this symlink + motd.tail + regenerate at login/boot?
davvid 15y ago
Welcome to linux. Actually, welcome to the world of software. This attitude is not helpful and please don't "blame" it on Linux.
- fader 15y ago
  > This attitude is not helpful That may be the most amusingly misdirected statement ever considering the inane rant that is under discussion.

by cbs 15y ago

Karunamon 15y ago

>I hope so, because other than "software should never ever change, doubly so if the documentation isn't updated" I got absolutely nothing from that post. Seeing as how I share, almost verbatim, the author's rage, allow me to break it down into a sentence or two: What possible benefit was there from overcomplicating the bloody MOTD file? I don't see anything but complexity for complexity's sake.

cbs 15y ago
What possible benefit was there from overcomplicating the bloody MOTD file? I dunno, but does it really matter? If the motd mattered anything to me, I would have been aware of the change. I was blindsided by this change too and one day, like years ago, I noticed that the motd wasn't working as I expected and reset itself. I did (something to the effect of) this: $ ls -l /etc/motd* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 2008-09-23 21:44 /etc/motd -> /var/run/motd -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-06-14 15:01 /etc/motd.tail Then I thought "oh I see what they did there", dropped a banner in motd.tail and moved on with life. Wow, yeah, 2 and a half years ago. Didn't care then, still don't care now.
jsight 15y ago
Didn't these changes make the addition of dynamic content to the MOTD really trivial? That seems compatible with Ubuntu's mission to me. It sounds to me like this whole rant could have been replaced with a bug report on the documentation in Launchpad.
nknight 15y ago
I happen to like being informed, when I SSH into my server, that there are some package updates available. I happen to like a quick status check popping up for me to either look at or just ignore at my pleasure, especially since 99% of the time, the first thing I do when I log into a server is do exactly the sort of status check available in the Ubuntu MOTD. There are benefits. That you don't consider them worthwhile is fine, but you don't need to go apoplectic about it.
- lysium 15y ago
  Why don't you run a script in your ~/.bash_login file (or whatever file your shell uses)?
  - nknight 15y ago
    I could. Or I could just look at the thing they already did for me. Much like I could create a bootloader configuration when I install Ubuntu, but that's already done for me. There are a lot of things we could do on our own. Sometimes we don't have to. Sometimes, some set of people would prefer we did have to, but that doesn't mean we all have to acquiesce to their desires.
    - Karunamon 15y ago
      The MOTD is for the MOTD, and bashrc is for things to be launched on login. This seems to be a very blatant example of scope creep.
- moe 15y ago
  That's a valid concern - but then by all means make it an optional package. Linux is modular, there is absolutely no reason to mess with core-stuff like that and not provide a simple way to revert to normal.
  - nknight 15y ago
    My point is, who are you to decide how "Linux" is supposed to behave by default? Why do you get veto power over what should be "optional"? A choice has been made for Ubuntu's behavior. Other distributions are free to make their own choices. If you find Ubuntu's choice disagreeable, you can file a bug and try to change it, or you can change it for yourself on your own system, or you can just live with it, or you can change distributions. You can even fork Ubuntu and make just this change, if you like. You do have that choice. Getting mad because Ubuntu's choices are different from choices you might make is just silly.
cinch 15y ago
yep. why make it complicated when one could, for example, the admin can simply overwrite the motd from /etc/rc.local, instead of this symlink + motd.tail + regenerate at login/boot?

davvid 15y ago

Welcome to linux. Actually, welcome to the world of software. This attitude is not helpful and please don't "blame" it on Linux.

fader 15y ago
> This attitude is not helpful That may be the most amusingly misdirected statement ever considering the inane rant that is under discussion.