6 ms·

This is exactly my experience, probably from age 28 until I met my wife at ~34. My friends and I would go to all these bars, clubs, rock climbing trips. While I

This is exactly my experience, probably from age 28 until I met my wife at ~34. My friends and I would go to all these bars, clubs, rock climbing trips. While I loved my friends and generally enjoyed doing those things, I felt this long-term malaise of meaningless. The loss of freedom getting married and then greater loss when having kids was unexpected and a jarring change. But it has made me such a better person. And even though it sucks going through the same chores every day or when my 4 and 6 year olds are in maximum procrastination mode. I wouldn't trade my worst day with them for my best day of freedom when I was younger. I've never been more happy.

RamblingCTO 4y ago
Thank you and also the parent for the perspective. That's also what I experience. Not sure kids will fix that, but it always feels better knowing you're not alone.
kanahanin 4y ago
You've just described my life. Thanks for the perspective, That empty feeling was very confusing for me. I've something to look forward too!
Defitio 4y ago
In my opinion plenty of people just use kids as a scapegoat for meaning of life. My question would be why you value your kids time more than bouldern? Because you made them? Because they consume so much time with them? Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it? Unfortunately for me I'm not sure if I would end like you or the other poster who regrets it sometimes. Also I'm not sure if I want to force another/new human through my experiences like going to school etc. In dune the king new/realized that he can't do what is necessary but has to prepare his son to do so. I have the opposite though: perhaps I need to not to have kids to stop the cycle of creating meaning through procreation. Yes I overthink stuff and one way or the other I still think becoming a parent would be a life changing experience but besides all of the normal thoughts climate change comes on top of it.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  If you can edit this. Edit out the “you” to “people”. It doesn’t look like an attack then. I see your comment is greying out so it’s getting downvotes. Having diff perspectives is cool so it would be unfortunate for yours to get flagged because it seems too aggressive.
- neweroldguy 4y ago
  I think your concern (will I be one who is fulfilled, or one who regrets?) is reasonable, but in fact for many people the answer is “yes”. You’ll often feel fulfilled. Occasionally you’ll regret. Also, “escape goat”, while an amazing phrase, should be “scapegoat”.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    Escape goat is such a better term haha. I wish it was a legit synonym
- lee 4y ago
  > Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it? It is totally this. We are biological creatures and we cannot escape that. Love, sex, friendships, relationships, parenting, happiness, and so forth are all aspects of our biology. We are not automatons living a purely rational life. Satisfaction in life depends on those biological mechanisms and shouldn't be seen through a purely rational lens. Kids aren't a scapegoat for a meaningful life. They do absolutely make life meaningful. Much in the same way eating a delicious meal brings pleasure. We depend on our biological wiring to feel such things.
  - skyhvr 4y ago
    Thank you for this poignant reminder.
  - Defitio 4y ago
    Yes but is it fair to the new human? Oversimplified: would you be okay to create a new human if you know they have only 100 days to life? 5 years? 20? Suffering in school, sleep problems etc etc? Just because it's evolutionary pre programmed?
saiya-jin 4y ago
Well, I was into that rock climbing, and, alpinism, ski touring, diving, paragliding, various expeditions and god knows what else. It can fill up your life, and if you have good close friends it may be enough to feel long term OK and have amazing moments, which I kinda was. In fact, I've spent all my 30s like that, and backpacking around the world. I needed that, I felt I needed that back then, and when looking in retrospect it was right emotion, it made me a more complete human being (and later better parent too). Some can get there without, I couldn't, didn't have the right environment for it when growing up. This worked very well even when married, my wife complements me well in this (we met on a climbing session so that part was covered). And then kids came, one just before covid and one during. I clinged to that climbing (with buddy) a bit, that was my escape for few hours a week into easy good times that were. Then I had this year injury of wrist, and then broken foot (all in civil setting, ie falling down the stairs in kindergarten) and I lost it all, and I blamed kids internally. I was depressed a bit. My sleep for past year was never, ever uninterrupted, good 8 hours (those damned teeth, how could evolution fucked up so badly? any animal with this trait would simply die out over few generations). That normal sleep is just gone, and I am mentally at maybe 70% at better days, more irritable, less patient. But the thing is, kids bring up the hardest moments just as much as the best moments of your life. And we humans generally are OK with suffering quite a bit for those few nice moments. Kids bring tons of those. Even when walking relative valley of the shadow now with small kids (diapers, various naps during day that block anything bigger, teeth and lack of sleep), without cheaping out and outsourcing many troubles to nanny (or grandparents), they are amazing to watch, to experience. They love you back, unconditionally (for now), and it just feels natural to continue what all generations since ever did. It had been a rough year, few folks died in close family, and when my grandpa died 2 days ago, hugging my kids made it much much much more bearable. I am pretty darn sure that skipping kids would be by far the biggest regret of my life later, met quite a few older folks like that. No need to always do the mistake to realize others were right again. But - if one has some serious mental issue which make them unable to be a stable partner and caretaker, then it should definitely be avoided. Too many sad stories out there already.

RamblingCTO 4y ago

Thank you and also the parent for the perspective. That's also what I experience. Not sure kids will fix that, but it always feels better knowing you're not alone.

kanahanin 4y ago

You've just described my life. Thanks for the perspective, That empty feeling was very confusing for me. I've something to look forward too!

Defitio 4y ago

In my opinion plenty of people just use kids as a scapegoat for meaning of life. My question would be why you value your kids time more than bouldern? Because you made them? Because they consume so much time with them? Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it? Unfortunately for me I'm not sure if I would end like you or the other poster who regrets it sometimes. Also I'm not sure if I want to force another/new human through my experiences like going to school etc. In dune the king new/realized that he can't do what is necessary but has to prepare his son to do so. I have the opposite though: perhaps I need to not to have kids to stop the cycle of creating meaning through procreation. Yes I overthink stuff and one way or the other I still think becoming a parent would be a life changing experience but besides all of the normal thoughts climate change comes on top of it.

skinnymuch 4y ago
If you can edit this. Edit out the “you” to “people”. It doesn’t look like an attack then. I see your comment is greying out so it’s getting downvotes. Having diff perspectives is cool so it would be unfortunate for yours to get flagged because it seems too aggressive.
neweroldguy 4y ago
I think your concern (will I be one who is fulfilled, or one who regrets?) is reasonable, but in fact for many people the answer is “yes”. You’ll often feel fulfilled. Occasionally you’ll regret. Also, “escape goat”, while an amazing phrase, should be “scapegoat”.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  Escape goat is such a better term haha. I wish it was a legit synonym
lee 4y ago
> Or because you are just better in being a parent and biological getting satisfaction out of it? It is totally this. We are biological creatures and we cannot escape that. Love, sex, friendships, relationships, parenting, happiness, and so forth are all aspects of our biology. We are not automatons living a purely rational life. Satisfaction in life depends on those biological mechanisms and shouldn't be seen through a purely rational lens. Kids aren't a scapegoat for a meaningful life. They do absolutely make life meaningful. Much in the same way eating a delicious meal brings pleasure. We depend on our biological wiring to feel such things.
- skyhvr 4y ago
  Thank you for this poignant reminder.
- Defitio 4y ago
  Yes but is it fair to the new human? Oversimplified: would you be okay to create a new human if you know they have only 100 days to life? 5 years? 20? Suffering in school, sleep problems etc etc? Just because it's evolutionary pre programmed?

saiya-jin 4y ago

Well, I was into that rock climbing, and, alpinism, ski touring, diving, paragliding, various expeditions and god knows what else. It can fill up your life, and if you have good close friends it may be enough to feel long term OK and have amazing moments, which I kinda was. In fact, I've spent all my 30s like that, and backpacking around the world. I needed that, I felt I needed that back then, and when looking in retrospect it was right emotion, it made me a more complete human being (and later better parent too). Some can get there without, I couldn't, didn't have the right environment for it when growing up. This worked very well even when married, my wife complements me well in this (we met on a climbing session so that part was covered). And then kids came, one just before covid and one during. I clinged to that climbing (with buddy) a bit, that was my escape for few hours a week into easy good times that were. Then I had this year injury of wrist, and then broken foot (all in civil setting, ie falling down the stairs in kindergarten) and I lost it all, and I blamed kids internally. I was depressed a bit. My sleep for past year was never, ever uninterrupted, good 8 hours (those damned teeth, how could evolution fucked up so badly? any animal with this trait would simply die out over few generations). That normal sleep is just gone, and I am mentally at maybe 70% at better days, more irritable, less patient. But the thing is, kids bring up the hardest moments just as much as the best moments of your life. And we humans generally are OK with suffering quite a bit for those few nice moments. Kids bring tons of those. Even when walking relative valley of the shadow now with small kids (diapers, various naps during day that block anything bigger, teeth and lack of sleep), without cheaping out and outsourcing many troubles to nanny (or grandparents), they are amazing to watch, to experience. They love you back, unconditionally (for now), and it just feels natural to continue what all generations since ever did. It had been a rough year, few folks died in close family, and when my grandpa died 2 days ago, hugging my kids made it much much much more bearable. I am pretty darn sure that skipping kids would be by far the biggest regret of my life later, met quite a few older folks like that. No need to always do the mistake to realize others were right again. But - if one has some serious mental issue which make them unable to be a stable partner and caretaker, then it should definitely be avoided. Too many sad stories out there already.