4 ms·

Spot the paranoid or the gullible is a lot easier since Defcon isn't remotely on the radar of any federal agency, and the notion was only invented to increase i

Spot the paranoid or the gullible is a lot easier since Defcon isn't remotely on the radar of any federal agency, and the notion was only invented to increase interest and credibility. You seriously believe FBI Special Agents would attend Defcon? They have jobs. edit: the 2015 FOIA request proved this. An FBI researcher pulled info off the web in 2001, no agents contacted the Vegas field office (which means no agents attended), the Vegas field office requested the case be closed, and it was. Read to me like someone in DC was playing a joke on the Vegas field office.

popcalc 4y ago
I met almost a dozen folks at DC this year who introduced themselves to me as working for a federal agency...
- Maursault 4y ago
  See any credentials? Maybe, and I mean maybe they weren't full of shit, but even so they certainly were not there in any official capacity, and it is just as likely as not they were entertainment paid to be there by Defcon organizers. Don't believe anything you read or hear, and only half of what you see.
  - adultSwim 4y ago
  - fragmede 4y ago
    It is a hacker convention after all. Social engineering is the name of the game (along with rooting ATMs and elevators). Whether the NSA booth on the convention floor is just for show or actually legit, I can't say, but it certainly gets the crowd going. The crowd who's hero is Kevin Mitnick. I'm sure later on it was all just a show to sell conference tickets, but they were real scared of computer hackers back in the 90's and there've been some truely impressive hacks shown there. Many of the speakers have FOIA'd FBI files so the feds are certainly consciously aware that it exists. Even then, printing out an official looking badge isn't proof of anything because that could easily be faked.
    - Maursault 4y ago
      No offense intended, but this is a biased and exceptionally naive viewpoint. If you had an equal amount of awareness of the mission and mandates of FBI and the things the Bureau is already overwhelmed with, such as national security, terrorism and counterterrorism, espionage and counterintelligence, organized crime, illegal drugs, illegal guns and other weapons, racketeering, transnational criminal enterprises, white collar crime, violent crime, human trafficking, significant cyber crime, public corruption at all government levels, and how difficult and time consuming even simple investigations can be, and that FBI does not investigate innocent civilians without reasonable suspicion, probable cause and due process, you'd realize they literally would have no concern about Defcon even after one of their own agent researchers prepared a report showing they were mocked. We really do not want to know what horrible things FBI is working against because it would cause significant psychological damage to any not already in law enforcement. NSA will be even less interested because their mission excludes domestic activities, and they are probably tapping every foreign telephone and monitoring and recording massive amounts of foreign Internet traffic, upwards of 2B emails a day, as well as radio and television broadcasts, and printed media. The amount of data NSA sifts through on a daily basis is mind-boggling. It would be astoundingly irresponsible if they wasted any resources whatsoever on Defcon, even a single employee to sit in a booth for a day. It is far more likely to be arranged by Defcon organizers rather than there being any interest whatsoever in a commercial convention and its participants, who are more than welcome to fill out and submit job applications on their own if the interest exists. NSA attracts so much talent as it is, they would never need to poach hackers from Defcon. The conventions these agencies attend you never hear about and would never admit the happy go lucky public participants of Defcon. I am not suggesting there isn't talent attracted to Defcon, only that the fact that these individuals even attended make them inappropriate candidates for recruitment by NSA, which is a spy agency. Spies do not show off their tradecraft in public or walk around with their mouths agape overwhelmed by the flashy commercialism of public conventions. By and large they are extremely patriotic and take their jobs deadly seriously, and Defcon could never be described as serious by design. Defcon is for fun, it is commercialized entertainment. That said, federal agents are as free as anyone to moonlight even for entertainment purposes so long as they don't violate off-duty conduct codes of their agency and DoJ. But the agencies themselves could never have interest in Defcon in any official capacity unless there was actually a valid reason, and a bunch of hackers having a good time is not a valid reason. There would need to be a threat to national security or reasonable suspicion of federal crime. Defcon isn't like that.
  - popcalc 4y ago
    >as not they were entertainment paid to be there by Defcon organizers You sound worryingly paranoid. I've become friends with several of them and I assure you they are real people and not some paid actors. As if DC, which relies on volunteers to load and unload workshop equipment, could afford such nonsense. Also met a couple ex-Dark Matter employees who told me crazy stories about the crash and burn lifestyle they afforded ex-NSA guys in the UAE.
fragmede 4y ago
Of course, if you can't beat em, join em. The NSA actively recruits during that conference, in plain site. https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/1/3199153/nsa-recruitment-controversy-defcon-hacker-conference https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/1/3199153/nsa-recruitment-co...
- Maursault 4y ago
  Bullshit. NSA recruits talent from exclusive universities not hacker conventions. Gen. Alexander would not have attended and spoken unless he was hired to do so.[1] He'll say what he is paid to say. Time to grow up, children. Play time is over, and this is reality. [1] https://www.speakerbookingagency.com/talent/keith-alexander https://www.speakerbookingagency.com/talent/keith-alexander

popcalc 4y ago

I met almost a dozen folks at DC this year who introduced themselves to me as working for a federal agency...

Maursault 4y ago
See any credentials? Maybe, and I mean maybe they weren't full of shit, but even so they certainly were not there in any official capacity, and it is just as likely as not they were entertainment paid to be there by Defcon organizers. Don't believe anything you read or hear, and only half of what you see.
- adultSwim 4y ago
- fragmede 4y ago
  It is a hacker convention after all. Social engineering is the name of the game (along with rooting ATMs and elevators). Whether the NSA booth on the convention floor is just for show or actually legit, I can't say, but it certainly gets the crowd going. The crowd who's hero is Kevin Mitnick. I'm sure later on it was all just a show to sell conference tickets, but they were real scared of computer hackers back in the 90's and there've been some truely impressive hacks shown there. Many of the speakers have FOIA'd FBI files so the feds are certainly consciously aware that it exists. Even then, printing out an official looking badge isn't proof of anything because that could easily be faked.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    No offense intended, but this is a biased and exceptionally naive viewpoint. If you had an equal amount of awareness of the mission and mandates of FBI and the things the Bureau is already overwhelmed with, such as national security, terrorism and counterterrorism, espionage and counterintelligence, organized crime, illegal drugs, illegal guns and other weapons, racketeering, transnational criminal enterprises, white collar crime, violent crime, human trafficking, significant cyber crime, public corruption at all government levels, and how difficult and time consuming even simple investigations can be, and that FBI does not investigate innocent civilians without reasonable suspicion, probable cause and due process, you'd realize they literally would have no concern about Defcon even after one of their own agent researchers prepared a report showing they were mocked. We really do not want to know what horrible things FBI is working against because it would cause significant psychological damage to any not already in law enforcement. NSA will be even less interested because their mission excludes domestic activities, and they are probably tapping every foreign telephone and monitoring and recording massive amounts of foreign Internet traffic, upwards of 2B emails a day, as well as radio and television broadcasts, and printed media. The amount of data NSA sifts through on a daily basis is mind-boggling. It would be astoundingly irresponsible if they wasted any resources whatsoever on Defcon, even a single employee to sit in a booth for a day. It is far more likely to be arranged by Defcon organizers rather than there being any interest whatsoever in a commercial convention and its participants, who are more than welcome to fill out and submit job applications on their own if the interest exists. NSA attracts so much talent as it is, they would never need to poach hackers from Defcon. The conventions these agencies attend you never hear about and would never admit the happy go lucky public participants of Defcon. I am not suggesting there isn't talent attracted to Defcon, only that the fact that these individuals even attended make them inappropriate candidates for recruitment by NSA, which is a spy agency. Spies do not show off their tradecraft in public or walk around with their mouths agape overwhelmed by the flashy commercialism of public conventions. By and large they are extremely patriotic and take their jobs deadly seriously, and Defcon could never be described as serious by design. Defcon is for fun, it is commercialized entertainment. That said, federal agents are as free as anyone to moonlight even for entertainment purposes so long as they don't violate off-duty conduct codes of their agency and DoJ. But the agencies themselves could never have interest in Defcon in any official capacity unless there was actually a valid reason, and a bunch of hackers having a good time is not a valid reason. There would need to be a threat to national security or reasonable suspicion of federal crime. Defcon isn't like that.
- popcalc 4y ago
  >as not they were entertainment paid to be there by Defcon organizers You sound worryingly paranoid. I've become friends with several of them and I assure you they are real people and not some paid actors. As if DC, which relies on volunteers to load and unload workshop equipment, could afford such nonsense. Also met a couple ex-Dark Matter employees who told me crazy stories about the crash and burn lifestyle they afforded ex-NSA guys in the UAE.

fragmede 4y ago

Of course, if you can't beat em, join em. The NSA actively recruits during that conference, in plain site. https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/1/3199153/nsa-recruitment-controversy-defcon-hacker-conference https://www.theverge.com/2012/8/1/3199153/nsa-recruitment-co...

Maursault 4y ago
Bullshit. NSA recruits talent from exclusive universities not hacker conventions. Gen. Alexander would not have attended and spoken unless he was hired to do so.[1] He'll say what he is paid to say. Time to grow up, children. Play time is over, and this is reality. [1] https://www.speakerbookingagency.com/talent/keith-alexander https://www.speakerbookingagency.com/talent/keith-alexander