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> Outside of Google the product management function does indeed seem to be... pretty awful for everyone involved. If the best product managers are at google, t

> Outside of Google the product management function does indeed seem to be... pretty awful for everyone involved. If the best product managers are at google, then that's very damning, given that Google are notorious for having awful product sense. I'm not convinced that's true though. I've worked with good product people at small companies.

danielmarkbruce 4y ago
I'm not saying that - I'm saying the job and whole situation around it is pretty awful, for everyone, outside Google. And it's a sweeping generalization. There are obviously going to be pockets where the opposite is true. That said - I don't think Google PMs are notorious for having awful product sense. They do seem to get hired at a lot of places. And product sense is a wishy washy term. If someone tells you they have great product sense ask them why they don't have a billion dollars.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  I can’t judge Google PMs. But Google the company’s products are not good. Often they start out good, and then get progressively worse, stagnate, or are killed off entirely! Regarding why product people don’t have $1m. I would suggest that building a great product is not sufficient for that, you also need to be able to sell it.
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    >> I would suggest that building a great product is not sufficient for that, you also need to be able to sell it. I might be putting toooo much responsibility on product, but realistically to have a good product in a good market, it has to be sellable - ie built with the distribution in mind so that an economical go-to-market is within the control of the company. For large enterprise customers the product might built with direct sales in mind - high price, high value, features large enterprise need, sufficiently defined buyer group etc. If one doesn't factor that into what product to build for what market, I don't think they have product sense.

danielmarkbruce 4y ago

I'm not saying that - I'm saying the job and whole situation around it is pretty awful, for everyone, outside Google. And it's a sweeping generalization. There are obviously going to be pockets where the opposite is true. That said - I don't think Google PMs are notorious for having awful product sense. They do seem to get hired at a lot of places. And product sense is a wishy washy term. If someone tells you they have great product sense ask them why they don't have a billion dollars.

nicoburns 4y ago
I can’t judge Google PMs. But Google the company’s products are not good. Often they start out good, and then get progressively worse, stagnate, or are killed off entirely! Regarding why product people don’t have $1m. I would suggest that building a great product is not sufficient for that, you also need to be able to sell it.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  >> I would suggest that building a great product is not sufficient for that, you also need to be able to sell it. I might be putting toooo much responsibility on product, but realistically to have a good product in a good market, it has to be sellable - ie built with the distribution in mind so that an economical go-to-market is within the control of the company. For large enterprise customers the product might built with direct sales in mind - high price, high value, features large enterprise need, sufficiently defined buyer group etc. If one doesn't factor that into what product to build for what market, I don't think they have product sense.