4 ms·

Not sure what the data is. I biked 2+ hours almost daily in a major US city for a couple years. Every accident I had was one where I was in a designated bike

Not sure what the data is. I biked 2+ hours almost daily in a major US city for a couple years. Every accident I had was one where I was in a designated bike lane, and the car crossed it to turn or enter a parking lot in an opening. Separating cars from bicycles in my personal anecdotes was what the danger was, I never had issues when I rode on the real road not on a bike lane. Once you're in the bike lane it's like you're in another world and cars forget you're there (and you can't really ride on the regular road when there's a bike lane next to you, as it makes drivers hostile).

ryukafalz 4y ago
There is safety in numbers and there's little chance that you'll see any significant portion of the population mixing with traffic on main streets. If you can't expect children and families to ride there, it's not safe enough. On side streets with little car traffic it often does make sense not to separate infrastructure, but traffic calming is then particularly important. http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/11/reality-vs-myth-dangers-of-dutch-cycle.html?m=1 http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/11/reality-vs-myth... That said: > Every accident I had was one where I was in a designated bike lane, and the car crossed it to turn or enter a parking lot in an opening. A "designated bike lane" that's just a strip of paint is also not enough for exactly that reason, and if the bike lane (even a protected one) is frequently interrupted by curb cuts into parking lots that's likewise not bike-friendly design.
climb_stealth 4y ago
Do cars have right of way on turns like that? It's an interesting difference between Germany and Australia for example. In Germany bicycles and pedestrians have right of way on roundabouts or driveways. So everyone is used to looking out for cyclists when entering or exiting a roundabout or driveways. It's perfectly natural. In Australia cyclists and pedestrians don't have right of way. Often on foot you have you wait at a roundabout until there are no cars. I think this is a much more dangerous approach as it makes for building bad habits of not having to look out for others.
- notch656a 4y ago
  I believe the person going straight in a lane has right-of-way over someone trying to turn in front of them faster than they can reasonably stop. Bicycles are treated as cars, but pedestrians always have right of way if on a pedestrian path. My near misses and accidents generally are because either someone tries to quickly get in front of me so they can turn in front of me, or because they didn't notice the bike lane at all when turning. I think the Australian rule would be nearly impossible to follow in a major city, as it's difficult to predict when a car quickly overtaking you may want to "get one over you" and gun it and turn into a driveway in front of you, which is a major cause for my hits / near misses.
  - climb_stealth 4y ago
    Now that you say it I'm not actually sure what the rule is in Australia. But in practice as a pedestrian or cyclist you have to be aware of cars and can't expect to be given way. In Germany being given way feels pretty much ingrained. It is a very different experience. And yes, crossing across sidewalks or bike lanes with poor visibility is a common bad one. Both when being the one driving and on foot or bike.
    - akgerber 4y ago
      The difference is that right-of-way laws for pedestrians and cyclists are actually enforced in Germany. The laws are generally similar elsewhere in the world, but as they are unenforced the larger, heavier vehicle de facto has right-of-way because the driver can easily kill a cyclist or pedestrian without meaningful consequence.
      - notch656a 4y ago
        AFAIK in the US a bicycle is considered a car for right-of-way purposes and thus has no privilege over the car. The only upside in the traffic laws is ability to use the bike lane, SOMETIMES (but usually not) legal right to be on the sidewalk, and no need for a driver's license / registration / insurance.

ryukafalz 4y ago

There is safety in numbers and there's little chance that you'll see any significant portion of the population mixing with traffic on main streets. If you can't expect children and families to ride there, it's not safe enough. On side streets with little car traffic it often does make sense not to separate infrastructure, but traffic calming is then particularly important. http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/11/reality-vs-myth-dangers-of-dutch-cycle.html?m=1 http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2010/11/reality-vs-myth... That said: > Every accident I had was one where I was in a designated bike lane, and the car crossed it to turn or enter a parking lot in an opening. A "designated bike lane" that's just a strip of paint is also not enough for exactly that reason, and if the bike lane (even a protected one) is frequently interrupted by curb cuts into parking lots that's likewise not bike-friendly design.

climb_stealth 4y ago

Do cars have right of way on turns like that? It's an interesting difference between Germany and Australia for example. In Germany bicycles and pedestrians have right of way on roundabouts or driveways. So everyone is used to looking out for cyclists when entering or exiting a roundabout or driveways. It's perfectly natural. In Australia cyclists and pedestrians don't have right of way. Often on foot you have you wait at a roundabout until there are no cars. I think this is a much more dangerous approach as it makes for building bad habits of not having to look out for others.

notch656a 4y ago
I believe the person going straight in a lane has right-of-way over someone trying to turn in front of them faster than they can reasonably stop. Bicycles are treated as cars, but pedestrians always have right of way if on a pedestrian path. My near misses and accidents generally are because either someone tries to quickly get in front of me so they can turn in front of me, or because they didn't notice the bike lane at all when turning. I think the Australian rule would be nearly impossible to follow in a major city, as it's difficult to predict when a car quickly overtaking you may want to "get one over you" and gun it and turn into a driveway in front of you, which is a major cause for my hits / near misses.
- climb_stealth 4y ago
  Now that you say it I'm not actually sure what the rule is in Australia. But in practice as a pedestrian or cyclist you have to be aware of cars and can't expect to be given way. In Germany being given way feels pretty much ingrained. It is a very different experience. And yes, crossing across sidewalks or bike lanes with poor visibility is a common bad one. Both when being the one driving and on foot or bike.
  - akgerber 4y ago
    The difference is that right-of-way laws for pedestrians and cyclists are actually enforced in Germany. The laws are generally similar elsewhere in the world, but as they are unenforced the larger, heavier vehicle de facto has right-of-way because the driver can easily kill a cyclist or pedestrian without meaningful consequence.
    - notch656a 4y ago
      AFAIK in the US a bicycle is considered a car for right-of-way purposes and thus has no privilege over the car. The only upside in the traffic laws is ability to use the bike lane, SOMETIMES (but usually not) legal right to be on the sidewalk, and no need for a driver's license / registration / insurance.