6 ms·

This can pose a big problem for people who have made their homes in the U.S. for decades, diligently working, paying taxes, buying houses, and raising their chi

by causi 4y ago

This can pose a big problem for people who have made their homes in the U.S. for decades, diligently working, paying taxes, buying houses, and raising their children. It's perverse there is any visa that lets someone stay in the country for decades without offering them a path to permanent residency and citizenship.

olliej 4y ago
H1-Bs do have a path to permanent residence and so citizenship. The problem is that the various rules around being on an H1-B make it super easy to exploit workers - which has a side effect of reducing permanent resident and citizen wages.
- snotrockets 4y ago
  Not a universal path. It depends on their employer benevolence, or them matching a specific criteria of excellence, which I'm assuming many won't. Compare with other countries, where the eligibility for residency is automatic for all foreign workers for have worked in that country for a given amount of time.
newaccount2021 4y ago
Kalium 4y ago
I believe H-1B is a dual-intent visa, allowing application for a Green Card after a specified number of years. Green Card holders then become eligible for citizenship after another specified number of years. So if my understanding is correct, the US government agrees with you.
- AdvancedCarrot 4y ago
  Yes but your employer needs to sponsor you for a green card, and they don't really have any incentive to do so (since once you have the green card you don't have to work for them anymore).
  - returningfory2 4y ago
    I think this sounds theoretically reasonable, but in reality it's not like this: - The cost of sponsoring someone for a green card ($50k?) is low compared to engineering salaries. - Many companies like Google have great retention and the probability that an employee leaves after getting green card is low. - Companies that are worried about retention often have employees sign a reimbursement agreement when starting the GC process. Something like, if you leave within 2 years of getting the GC you pay a prorated portion of the legal fees. - In a tight labor market, GC sponsorship is another benefit like compensation, and companies offer it to hire good people. Over the last few years companies like Amazon have changed their GC policy to sponsor folks from day 1 of employment in order to hire people for whom a GC is that important.
  - sys_64738 4y ago
    Yes, you do need to work for them because if you become a PR through employment then jump then it was always viewed as fraud. The generally recommended strategy was to stay with the employer for one year after the PR status is granted.
- david-gpu 4y ago
  > Green Card holders then become eligible for citizenship after another specified number of years In theory, yes. But there's a massive backlog, depending on your country of origin. I know somebody who graduated in the US and after 10+ years they gave up trying to obtain a green card in the US and instead applied for permanent residence in Canada -- within a year they had moved with their family. This is far from unique.
  - Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
    The system is super broken. If you're from India or China and on H-1B and just starting out, do whatever your employer is willing to sponsor you for to get a green card, but your fastest path is probably to figure out how to qualify through only legal employment activities to get an O-1A and then an EB-1A.
- snotrockets 4y ago
  This is not true. An H1B employee can not apply to become a permanent resident ("green card") based on their H1B employment itself. As far as I know, the only way to self petition for an extraordinary ability (EB1) based immigration, but that probably applies only to a small percentage of H1B workers. The rest are bound to their employer applying to grant the employees immigration benefits, which the employer may or may not do.
  - Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
    Also the EB-2 NIW, see my other comment in this thread!
throwaway44111 4y ago
H1-B is dual intent. After six years in the US as an H1B worker, you can become eligible to apply for a US Green Card, which will allow you to remain in the USA indefinitely. However due to the backlogs in priority dates for some categories, you could potentially be in H-1B status for 10-20 years while waiting for your priority date to become current. But you can keep renewing using AC21 provisions in the meantime.
- programmertote 4y ago
  One doesn't need to wait 6 years with H1B to apply for green card. S/he needs to get his/her employer to agree on sponsoring the green card and the process can start whenever. My employer agreed to apply for green card in the second year of my H1B. I fortunately am not from one of those countries (China and India) with long wait for green card, so I got mine in a little less than 4 years (in fact, my case took a bit longer than usual, but COVID-related delay was a factor and the lawfirm, Fragomen, messing up a step in my application process was another factor in such a delay).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
    Yes, this is correct. Some employers are even willing to start the green card process before the H-1B is even selected in the lottery. But whether that's a good idea depends on the specifics of each employee's travel plans and current immigration status.
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  My (potentially wrong) understanding is that backlogs are often determined by country in order to prevent any particular foreign ethnic group (like China or India) from becoming residents in such quantities that assimilation to American culture is unlikely. Pragmatically you can already see the effects of anti foreign ethnicity backlash in national politics, so it does seem like something that needs some level of management.
cousin_it 4y ago
I'd go even further. If a country benefits from someone's work and taxes, it should give them a say in how these taxes are spent (i.e. let them vote) after a quite short term, for example one year.
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  Do you think assimilation matters? Do you think to a meaningful degree cultural norms dictate societal level outcomes?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  I don't think so. The right to vote and control how money is spent is the right of a citizen. However I think the current immigration system is awful and should be completely redone and improved and the waitlists drastically reduced with citizenship being a lot more streamlined for active, productive members participating in our economy.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
Yes, I totally agree. We need systemic change. I helped write the startup visa for Congress and although the house passed it, the Senate wouldn't. They're gridlocked and we need other creative legal solutions.

by causi 4y ago

olliej 4y ago

H1-Bs do have a path to permanent residence and so citizenship. The problem is that the various rules around being on an H1-B make it super easy to exploit workers - which has a side effect of reducing permanent resident and citizen wages.

snotrockets 4y ago
Not a universal path. It depends on their employer benevolence, or them matching a specific criteria of excellence, which I'm assuming many won't. Compare with other countries, where the eligibility for residency is automatic for all foreign workers for have worked in that country for a given amount of time.

newaccount2021 4y ago

Kalium 4y ago

I believe H-1B is a dual-intent visa, allowing application for a Green Card after a specified number of years. Green Card holders then become eligible for citizenship after another specified number of years. So if my understanding is correct, the US government agrees with you.

AdvancedCarrot 4y ago
Yes but your employer needs to sponsor you for a green card, and they don't really have any incentive to do so (since once you have the green card you don't have to work for them anymore).
- returningfory2 4y ago
  I think this sounds theoretically reasonable, but in reality it's not like this: - The cost of sponsoring someone for a green card ($50k?) is low compared to engineering salaries. - Many companies like Google have great retention and the probability that an employee leaves after getting green card is low. - Companies that are worried about retention often have employees sign a reimbursement agreement when starting the GC process. Something like, if you leave within 2 years of getting the GC you pay a prorated portion of the legal fees. - In a tight labor market, GC sponsorship is another benefit like compensation, and companies offer it to hire good people. Over the last few years companies like Amazon have changed their GC policy to sponsor folks from day 1 of employment in order to hire people for whom a GC is that important.
- sys_64738 4y ago
  Yes, you do need to work for them because if you become a PR through employment then jump then it was always viewed as fraud. The generally recommended strategy was to stay with the employer for one year after the PR status is granted.
david-gpu 4y ago
> Green Card holders then become eligible for citizenship after another specified number of years In theory, yes. But there's a massive backlog, depending on your country of origin. I know somebody who graduated in the US and after 10+ years they gave up trying to obtain a green card in the US and instead applied for permanent residence in Canada -- within a year they had moved with their family. This is far from unique.
- Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
  The system is super broken. If you're from India or China and on H-1B and just starting out, do whatever your employer is willing to sponsor you for to get a green card, but your fastest path is probably to figure out how to qualify through only legal employment activities to get an O-1A and then an EB-1A.
snotrockets 4y ago
This is not true. An H1B employee can not apply to become a permanent resident ("green card") based on their H1B employment itself. As far as I know, the only way to self petition for an extraordinary ability (EB1) based immigration, but that probably applies only to a small percentage of H1B workers. The rest are bound to their employer applying to grant the employees immigration benefits, which the employer may or may not do.
- Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
  Also the EB-2 NIW, see my other comment in this thread!

throwaway44111 4y ago

H1-B is dual intent. After six years in the US as an H1B worker, you can become eligible to apply for a US Green Card, which will allow you to remain in the USA indefinitely. However due to the backlogs in priority dates for some categories, you could potentially be in H-1B status for 10-20 years while waiting for your priority date to become current. But you can keep renewing using AC21 provisions in the meantime.

programmertote 4y ago
One doesn't need to wait 6 years with H1B to apply for green card. S/he needs to get his/her employer to agree on sponsoring the green card and the process can start whenever. My employer agreed to apply for green card in the second year of my H1B. I fortunately am not from one of those countries (China and India) with long wait for green card, so I got mine in a little less than 4 years (in fact, my case took a bit longer than usual, but COVID-related delay was a factor and the lawfirm, Fragomen, messing up a step in my application process was another factor in such a delay).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago
  Yes, this is correct. Some employers are even willing to start the green card process before the H-1B is even selected in the lottery. But whether that's a good idea depends on the specifics of each employee's travel plans and current immigration status.
hayst4ck 4y ago
My (potentially wrong) understanding is that backlogs are often determined by country in order to prevent any particular foreign ethnic group (like China or India) from becoming residents in such quantities that assimilation to American culture is unlikely. Pragmatically you can already see the effects of anti foreign ethnicity backlash in national politics, so it does seem like something that needs some level of management.

cousin_it 4y ago

I'd go even further. If a country benefits from someone's work and taxes, it should give them a say in how these taxes are spent (i.e. let them vote) after a quite short term, for example one year.

hayst4ck 4y ago
Do you think assimilation matters? Do you think to a meaningful degree cultural norms dictate societal level outcomes?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
stjohnswarts 4y ago
I don't think so. The right to vote and control how money is spent is the right of a citizen. However I think the current immigration system is awful and should be completely redone and improved and the waitlists drastically reduced with citizenship being a lot more streamlined for active, productive members participating in our economy.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Sophie_Alcorn 4y ago

Yes, I totally agree. We need systemic change. I helped write the startup visa for Congress and although the house passed it, the Senate wouldn't. They're gridlocked and we need other creative legal solutions.