4 ms·

Starting to get disillusioned with this idea of hyperloop, electric cars, self driving cars The idea that we can just use technology and continue to promote a

by slifin 4y ago

Starting to get disillusioned with this idea of hyperloop, electric cars, self driving cars The idea that we can just use technology and continue to promote a car based hellscape seems untenable to me

akira2501 4y ago
> Car based hellscape. There is a generation that sees it this way, and for the life of me, I can't understand it. Is it just that the internet has enabled a level of local entertainment that wasn't available before and now the absolute personal freedom that cars and roads bring don't seem as appealing as they once did? What's the strategy for emergency ambulances in a strictly walkable town? What's your evacuation plan during a natural disaster? What accommodations will be made for the elderly? A town without roads can just as easily be a "hellscape." Maybe there's a more rational "middle of the road" way to look at this problem?
- ahelwer 4y ago
  > absolute personal freedom This association between personal car ownership and personal freedom is one of the most absurd things to me. Think of this the next time you're sitting in traffic - is that freedom you are feeling now? Of course, this situation of waiting for other people in cars to move (by far the most common situation by quantity of time for people who drive in cities) is not found at all in any car ad. Nope, it's all empty city streets and beautiful roads in the forests. It's one thing to be sold something and realize you've been had - quite another to persevere for years afterward that no, the beautiful experience you were sold really exists!
  - BitwiseFool 4y ago
    >"Think of this the next time you're sitting in traffic - is that freedom you are feeling now?" Not all trips taken in a car experience traffic, and not all commutes experience heavy traffic. When people talk about the sense of freedom afforded by owning a car, they are talking about spontaneity and not needing to deal with strangers in a crowded space.
    - ahelwer 4y ago
      I live in Atlanta and literally cannot think of a single car trip I've taken in the past two years that has not encountered traffic.
      - kyleee 4y ago
  - Lukeas14 4y ago
    Owning a car gives me the freedom to do a ton of things I simply wouldn't be able to do if I relied on public transportation / ubers / rental cars: - Last minute or long term road trips. - Get my 3 kids to 3 different activities in different parts of the city after school. - Pick up cheap furniture from Craigslist/ FB Marketplace as soon as it's posted. - Camping - Coach youth sports and transport all the necessary gear to practices/games/tournaments. I vote pro public transportation every time and use it for day to day work commuting. But it's really not hard to imagine ways that personal car ownership equals freedom for a lot of people.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Heh I’ve visited Europe and rented a car each time once done with “the city” and it’s been really nice. My dream world has me in one of the few cars and everyone else off the road. I do realize this is unreasonable, however.
  - kyleee 4y ago
- rhino369 4y ago
  I'm not sure if its a generation or just a certain class of recent generations (upper middle class). Cities are fun when you can afford the amenities, and cars degrade QOL in the desirable areas. But when you have kids (and thus can't live by spending 60% of your take-home pay on a subway adjacent one bedroom apartment) cars become a lot more necessary. And if you are middle class or working class, then you can't even afford to live within an easy subway commute--kids or not. And sure, I've had two kids in the city, but I spent more on rent than an average person makes in a year--and that was in Chicago, an "affordable" big city.
  - enragedcacti 4y ago
    Those are all consequences of urban planning decisions that "anti"-car people are arguing against. Your comment could be transplanted into r/fuckcars and look right at home because they view your experience as the avoidable consequences of bad policy.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  > Is it just that the internet has enabled a level of local entertainment that wasn't available before and now the absolute personal freedom that cars and roads bring don't seem as appealing as they once did? People are becoming aware of the absolutely immense societal cost that comes with "absolute personal freedom" that car-centric culture brings, and how most of the "freedom" it offers is really not that unique. healthy density, good public transit, bicycles, and car rentals for rural destinations give you the vast majority of the freedom without many of the downsides. > What's the strategy for emergency ambulances in a strictly walkable town? What's your evacuation plan during a natural disaster? What accommodations will be made for the elderly? A town without roads can just as easily be a "hellscape." This isn't some untested technology, it exists now in many countries and most urbanism in the US is about just pointing to what already works in Europe and saying we should build it here.
- chimprich 4y ago
  > What's the strategy for emergency ambulances in a strictly walkable town? In pedestrianised areas of my city, ambulances are allowed to just drive onto them. > What's your evacuation plan during a natural disaster? Aren't these usually carried out by buses etc. to avoid gridlock of private cars? > What accommodations will be made for the elderly? Mobility scooters, bicycles, special routes for vehicles with disabled badge holders, wheelchair-accessible public transport, etc.
- 0x445442 4y ago
  > Is it just that the internet Yep, and the SV glitterati (See Zuck) solution is to have everyone don a VR headset to "experience" Yosemite. They'd prefer to live on Coruscant than the 6666 ranch.

by slifin 4y ago

akira2501 4y ago

> Car based hellscape. There is a generation that sees it this way, and for the life of me, I can't understand it. Is it just that the internet has enabled a level of local entertainment that wasn't available before and now the absolute personal freedom that cars and roads bring don't seem as appealing as they once did? What's the strategy for emergency ambulances in a strictly walkable town? What's your evacuation plan during a natural disaster? What accommodations will be made for the elderly? A town without roads can just as easily be a "hellscape." Maybe there's a more rational "middle of the road" way to look at this problem?

ahelwer 4y ago
> absolute personal freedom This association between personal car ownership and personal freedom is one of the most absurd things to me. Think of this the next time you're sitting in traffic - is that freedom you are feeling now? Of course, this situation of waiting for other people in cars to move (by far the most common situation by quantity of time for people who drive in cities) is not found at all in any car ad. Nope, it's all empty city streets and beautiful roads in the forests. It's one thing to be sold something and realize you've been had - quite another to persevere for years afterward that no, the beautiful experience you were sold really exists!
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  >"Think of this the next time you're sitting in traffic - is that freedom you are feeling now?" Not all trips taken in a car experience traffic, and not all commutes experience heavy traffic. When people talk about the sense of freedom afforded by owning a car, they are talking about spontaneity and not needing to deal with strangers in a crowded space.
  - ahelwer 4y ago
    I live in Atlanta and literally cannot think of a single car trip I've taken in the past two years that has not encountered traffic.
    - kyleee 4y ago
- Lukeas14 4y ago
  Owning a car gives me the freedom to do a ton of things I simply wouldn't be able to do if I relied on public transportation / ubers / rental cars: - Last minute or long term road trips. - Get my 3 kids to 3 different activities in different parts of the city after school. - Pick up cheap furniture from Craigslist/ FB Marketplace as soon as it's posted. - Camping - Coach youth sports and transport all the necessary gear to practices/games/tournaments. I vote pro public transportation every time and use it for day to day work commuting. But it's really not hard to imagine ways that personal car ownership equals freedom for a lot of people.
bombcar 4y ago
Heh I’ve visited Europe and rented a car each time once done with “the city” and it’s been really nice. My dream world has me in one of the few cars and everyone else off the road. I do realize this is unreasonable, however.
- kyleee 4y ago
rhino369 4y ago
I'm not sure if its a generation or just a certain class of recent generations (upper middle class). Cities are fun when you can afford the amenities, and cars degrade QOL in the desirable areas. But when you have kids (and thus can't live by spending 60% of your take-home pay on a subway adjacent one bedroom apartment) cars become a lot more necessary. And if you are middle class or working class, then you can't even afford to live within an easy subway commute--kids or not. And sure, I've had two kids in the city, but I spent more on rent than an average person makes in a year--and that was in Chicago, an "affordable" big city.
- enragedcacti 4y ago
  Those are all consequences of urban planning decisions that "anti"-car people are arguing against. Your comment could be transplanted into r/fuckcars and look right at home because they view your experience as the avoidable consequences of bad policy.
enragedcacti 4y ago
> Is it just that the internet has enabled a level of local entertainment that wasn't available before and now the absolute personal freedom that cars and roads bring don't seem as appealing as they once did? People are becoming aware of the absolutely immense societal cost that comes with "absolute personal freedom" that car-centric culture brings, and how most of the "freedom" it offers is really not that unique. healthy density, good public transit, bicycles, and car rentals for rural destinations give you the vast majority of the freedom without many of the downsides. > What's the strategy for emergency ambulances in a strictly walkable town? What's your evacuation plan during a natural disaster? What accommodations will be made for the elderly? A town without roads can just as easily be a "hellscape." This isn't some untested technology, it exists now in many countries and most urbanism in the US is about just pointing to what already works in Europe and saying we should build it here.
chimprich 4y ago
> What's the strategy for emergency ambulances in a strictly walkable town? In pedestrianised areas of my city, ambulances are allowed to just drive onto them. > What's your evacuation plan during a natural disaster? Aren't these usually carried out by buses etc. to avoid gridlock of private cars? > What accommodations will be made for the elderly? Mobility scooters, bicycles, special routes for vehicles with disabled badge holders, wheelchair-accessible public transport, etc.
0x445442 4y ago
> Is it just that the internet Yep, and the SV glitterati (See Zuck) solution is to have everyone don a VR headset to "experience" Yosemite. They'd prefer to live on Coruscant than the 6666 ranch.