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Why are so many onsite advocates bringing socialising up? We are not there for their mental health or to fill in voids in their personal life. Have they conside

Why are so many onsite advocates bringing socialising up? We are not there for their mental health or to fill in voids in their personal life. Have they considered that many of their socialising needs are not satisfied precisely because of office work that mandates people waste their time commuting or being far from their loved ones in the first place? It’s not that i dont sympathise, but seriously.

mkehrt 4y ago
I don't think we should force people to come into offices, but I am a strong advocate for having offices. I cannot work at home. I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. If I'm at home by myself, even for a day, I sit in a depressed pit and do no work. I understand that many, many people do not feel this way, but the idea that people would want to work from home is utterly bananas to me.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. Doesn't seem like you need an office for that, though? You can invite your coworkers over to your home, go to a coffeeshop/bar, even the library. I went to the local library the other day and it was effectively vacant. I bet they would welcome your group with open arms to find some use for the space. Work from home doesn’t mean work from home, it means work from anywhere.
  - ihuman 4y ago
    All the WFH coworkers I've had were too spread out for that to be possible. Yes, "100% remote" means you can work from anywhere, but it also means your company can hire from anywhere.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      > your company can hire from anywhere. No need for nationalistic conspiracy theories. If your employer wants to replace you with an outsourced company or worker they will do so regardless of remote work policies, as it already happens.
      - ihuman 4y ago
        That isn't what I meant at all. I meant within the same state or country, but too far away to meet in person.
        yrgulation 4y ago
        My apologies. I see this statement often on some very odd forums, implying people will be outsourced and jobs sent abroad. I jumped to conclusions too early. Here in europe my coworkers and i debated a few times wether we should all take a trip to spain and work from there for a week. A team building exercise which we can afford since we dont waste money commuting. Maybe you could explore something similar, or if not, go out with friends and live your life outside the 8 hours.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      I work for an office-optional company and my nearest coworker is 500 miles away. For what reason would companies constrain themselves to the local talent pool just so you can have some friends? And if they are willing to do that for you, we're right back to the venue not mattering.
- dougmwne 4y ago
  That’s nice for you, but you will not be dragging me into the office just because you need people staring over your shoulder to get any work done. I’m not your motivation coach unless you are paying me to be. Seems you want your coworkers to provide this service to you for free even if it hurts their productivity. Incidentally there are virtual office zoom call services where you can get on a call and work with other people who have the same issue of not being able to work on their own.
  - misto 4y ago
    Can't both models for work exist at the same time? At my job there's a 'work as much remote as you want', but for similar reasons mentioned above, I tend to work more at the office. Am I forcing others to join me? No. I simply assume that those that come to the office, enjoy being there. Whatever their reason might be, doesn't matter. The fact that you are referring to what to me seems like a basic human need as some kind of a service is frankly a bit absurd. John Doe wants to be a cashier because he enjoys seeing and talking with different people. Do you send him a bill after coming back from the grocery store?
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      The issue is that back to office people seem to wish to make that mandatory. John Doe can be a cashier all they want, people shop online anyway - because we have lives outside offices and we dont want to spend them wasted commuting. John Doe is a dying breed unfortunately.
    - dougmwne 4y ago
      Oh yeah I think it’s a basic human need, but not one I need to get at work. The workplace is a monetized environment. I provide a service and I get paid for it. If I’m not getting paid I’m not going to be there and will put my energy to much more meaningful endeavors. The emotional labor of providing camaraderie and mentorship in an on-site location is an add-on service from me for an extra fee. People who want to be in an office should have it available or work for companies that can provide it. People like me can avoid it or only do it when the paycheck is right. My family is my family, my friends are my friends and my coworkers are my coworkers.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  And indeed i think you should have the option. But i dont think either of us should be forced either way.
  - ihuman 4y ago
    They never said it shouldn't be optional? OP wasn't asking why some people thing everyone should go back to the office. They were asking why some people like going to the office.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      I believe both op and myself can manage this debate without a third party clarifying on each others behalf?
kurtreed 4y ago
I struggle to meet people in general, and it's not because I'm spending a lot of time commuting. I appreciate being able to go to an office and socializing with coworkers.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  In our remote team we have occasional virtual beer sessions, and better yet, we plan for bbqs every now and then. Also we sometimes play starcraft or just call each other. But we do this voluntarily as opposed to being forced by our peers. I absolutely dont mind making friends at work but voluntarily.
  - kurtreed 4y ago
    Clearly people who want to go to an office should join companies/teams that go to an office and people who don't should join companies/teams that don't.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
      Or there could be, ya know, a mix. Again, you are trying to impose either or, whereas those of us who work from home want to be accommodating. Perhaps because we, despite working just as hard, are a bit more laxed in how we view the world around us.
- lm28469 4y ago
  Ever tried meetups&co ? There is a life out of work
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Some people want to enjoy their time at work as well. There is life outside of work, but that doesn't mean work needs to be lifeless.
    - yrgulation 4y ago
puglr 4y ago
Many of us find the social life aspect of office work very important to mental health. At my last office job my commute was 90 seconds (literally), and I had an active and healthy social life outside of work. You've created an imagined person whose wants are easier to dismiss.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  You may be an outlier but the vast majority of office workers live way farther than 90 seconds from their office. The mental health aspect is something i empathise with but not on my dime. By having to commute to work just so you can socialise with me i am basically paying money out of my pocket. Instead you should be free to be on site and i should be free to be remote and not hear you demand that you need my presence there to help your mental health. Thats selfish, with all due respect.
themitigating 4y ago
Everyone's situation is unique and my socializing needs might not be met outside of the office for reasons that are difficult for me to fix.
- yrgulation 4y ago
  I used to be same. Until i realised that remote work lets _me_ choose an environment where i fit in. After years wasted in london thinking about how cool it is and how much that city has to offer i realised it’s lonely as heck. Then i figured i would rather move on the country, get to know my neighbour, maybe bbq in a garden and have a small group if misfits like myself over for a beer every now and then. Heck i can even make my own starbucks at home in a nice office room that turns into a man cave at the switch of a button. I can do my hobby gardening, my own bread, maybe even learn how to do my own beer. I am not the hippie type but i found these to be better for my mental health. Those two hours not commuting work out at ten hours saved per week. Not to mention i can cook while i work (and plan the code, day or architecture in a quiet setting). Doing all of this in a city jam packed by people rushing to offices would have been impossible. Making friends also since its a large city and there is no time to meet and maintain relationships anyway. I think keeping an open mind and exploring the options remote work give you might help fix the issues that might impede socialising. The alternative is not even knowing you can do better, but maybe in the right setting - which you could explore by remote working.

mkehrt 4y ago

I don't think we should force people to come into offices, but I am a strong advocate for having offices. I cannot work at home. I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. If I'm at home by myself, even for a day, I sit in a depressed pit and do no work. I understand that many, many people do not feel this way, but the idea that people would want to work from home is utterly bananas to me.

randomdata 4y ago
> I need a minimum number of people around, preferably people with whom I am doing some work, to get anything done. Doesn't seem like you need an office for that, though? You can invite your coworkers over to your home, go to a coffeeshop/bar, even the library. I went to the local library the other day and it was effectively vacant. I bet they would welcome your group with open arms to find some use for the space. Work from home doesn’t mean work from home, it means work from anywhere.
- ihuman 4y ago
  All the WFH coworkers I've had were too spread out for that to be possible. Yes, "100% remote" means you can work from anywhere, but it also means your company can hire from anywhere.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    > your company can hire from anywhere. No need for nationalistic conspiracy theories. If your employer wants to replace you with an outsourced company or worker they will do so regardless of remote work policies, as it already happens.
    - ihuman 4y ago
      That isn't what I meant at all. I meant within the same state or country, but too far away to meet in person.
      - yrgulation 4y ago
        My apologies. I see this statement often on some very odd forums, implying people will be outsourced and jobs sent abroad. I jumped to conclusions too early. Here in europe my coworkers and i debated a few times wether we should all take a trip to spain and work from there for a week. A team building exercise which we can afford since we dont waste money commuting. Maybe you could explore something similar, or if not, go out with friends and live your life outside the 8 hours.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    I work for an office-optional company and my nearest coworker is 500 miles away. For what reason would companies constrain themselves to the local talent pool just so you can have some friends? And if they are willing to do that for you, we're right back to the venue not mattering.
dougmwne 4y ago
That’s nice for you, but you will not be dragging me into the office just because you need people staring over your shoulder to get any work done. I’m not your motivation coach unless you are paying me to be. Seems you want your coworkers to provide this service to you for free even if it hurts their productivity. Incidentally there are virtual office zoom call services where you can get on a call and work with other people who have the same issue of not being able to work on their own.
- misto 4y ago
  Can't both models for work exist at the same time? At my job there's a 'work as much remote as you want', but for similar reasons mentioned above, I tend to work more at the office. Am I forcing others to join me? No. I simply assume that those that come to the office, enjoy being there. Whatever their reason might be, doesn't matter. The fact that you are referring to what to me seems like a basic human need as some kind of a service is frankly a bit absurd. John Doe wants to be a cashier because he enjoys seeing and talking with different people. Do you send him a bill after coming back from the grocery store?
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    The issue is that back to office people seem to wish to make that mandatory. John Doe can be a cashier all they want, people shop online anyway - because we have lives outside offices and we dont want to spend them wasted commuting. John Doe is a dying breed unfortunately.
  - dougmwne 4y ago
    Oh yeah I think it’s a basic human need, but not one I need to get at work. The workplace is a monetized environment. I provide a service and I get paid for it. If I’m not getting paid I’m not going to be there and will put my energy to much more meaningful endeavors. The emotional labor of providing camaraderie and mentorship in an on-site location is an add-on service from me for an extra fee. People who want to be in an office should have it available or work for companies that can provide it. People like me can avoid it or only do it when the paycheck is right. My family is my family, my friends are my friends and my coworkers are my coworkers.
yrgulation 4y ago
And indeed i think you should have the option. But i dont think either of us should be forced either way.
- ihuman 4y ago
  They never said it shouldn't be optional? OP wasn't asking why some people thing everyone should go back to the office. They were asking why some people like going to the office.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    I believe both op and myself can manage this debate without a third party clarifying on each others behalf?

kurtreed 4y ago

I struggle to meet people in general, and it's not because I'm spending a lot of time commuting. I appreciate being able to go to an office and socializing with coworkers.

yrgulation 4y ago
In our remote team we have occasional virtual beer sessions, and better yet, we plan for bbqs every now and then. Also we sometimes play starcraft or just call each other. But we do this voluntarily as opposed to being forced by our peers. I absolutely dont mind making friends at work but voluntarily.
- kurtreed 4y ago
  Clearly people who want to go to an office should join companies/teams that go to an office and people who don't should join companies/teams that don't.
  - yrgulation 4y ago
    Or there could be, ya know, a mix. Again, you are trying to impose either or, whereas those of us who work from home want to be accommodating. Perhaps because we, despite working just as hard, are a bit more laxed in how we view the world around us.
lm28469 4y ago
Ever tried meetups&co ? There is a life out of work
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Some people want to enjoy their time at work as well. There is life outside of work, but that doesn't mean work needs to be lifeless.
  - yrgulation 4y ago

puglr 4y ago

Many of us find the social life aspect of office work very important to mental health. At my last office job my commute was 90 seconds (literally), and I had an active and healthy social life outside of work. You've created an imagined person whose wants are easier to dismiss.

yrgulation 4y ago
You may be an outlier but the vast majority of office workers live way farther than 90 seconds from their office. The mental health aspect is something i empathise with but not on my dime. By having to commute to work just so you can socialise with me i am basically paying money out of my pocket. Instead you should be free to be on site and i should be free to be remote and not hear you demand that you need my presence there to help your mental health. Thats selfish, with all due respect.

themitigating 4y ago

Everyone's situation is unique and my socializing needs might not be met outside of the office for reasons that are difficult for me to fix.

yrgulation 4y ago
I used to be same. Until i realised that remote work lets _me_ choose an environment where i fit in. After years wasted in london thinking about how cool it is and how much that city has to offer i realised it’s lonely as heck. Then i figured i would rather move on the country, get to know my neighbour, maybe bbq in a garden and have a small group if misfits like myself over for a beer every now and then. Heck i can even make my own starbucks at home in a nice office room that turns into a man cave at the switch of a button. I can do my hobby gardening, my own bread, maybe even learn how to do my own beer. I am not the hippie type but i found these to be better for my mental health. Those two hours not commuting work out at ten hours saved per week. Not to mention i can cook while i work (and plan the code, day or architecture in a quiet setting). Doing all of this in a city jam packed by people rushing to offices would have been impossible. Making friends also since its a large city and there is no time to meet and maintain relationships anyway. I think keeping an open mind and exploring the options remote work give you might help fix the issues that might impede socialising. The alternative is not even knowing you can do better, but maybe in the right setting - which you could explore by remote working.