8 ms·

I remember poking around Chicago real estate early last decade, and seeing condos for $500k with $2,000/mo HOA fees. Seems to vary wildly by area.

b112 4y ago
I cannot even think, what is worth that HOA. You could literally hire a full time person, 40hrs per week + give them a room in your house, for that.
- addaon 4y ago
  Not sure how you figure? Minimum wage in Illinois comes to $2600/month for 40 hours/week. You're giving them a room in a place where the prevailing rent is clearly over $2000/month, which is hard to price at less than $1000/month (a "two roommates" situation)... so your proposed value package is well over twice the HOA fee.
  - t-3 4y ago
    No, it's not. Minimum wage in Illinois is $12/hour. 12 x 40 x 4.3 = 2064.
    - addaon 4y ago
      $15.40 in Chicago, where the housing under discussion is located.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Illinois minimum wage is 11$/hour on their website, though I have also seen 12$ listed elsewhere. https://www.illinois.gov/services/service.find-minimum-wage-information.html https://www.illinois.gov/services/service.find-minimum-wage-... So 11 * 40 * 52 / 12 = 1906$/month + SS.
    - addaon 4y ago
      $15.40 in Chicago, where the housing under discussion is located.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retric 4y ago
        Single employee is 11$/hour in Chicago unless they are a domestic worker. $15.40 for employers with 21 or more employees (including all domestic workers, regardless of the number employed) $14.50 for employers with 4-20 employees https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/minimumwageinformation.html https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/minimum... But, you can subtract reasonable room and board fees, so actual cost could be lower if you had a spare room and someone was willing to take the job.
  - meragrin_ 4y ago
    Nah, more than one person pays the HOA fee. Ten people paying put it at $20k a month. $4600 a month is not even a quarter of that.
    - addaon 4y ago
      I think we might be saying the same thing? My reading of the grandparent was that the individual responsibility for the HOA / maintenance fee was outrageous because it "literally" represented approximate CoL for a whole additional human, which just isn't accurate. But the entire point of these collective fees is to pool them and use them for amenities which are not available to individuals. Of course collecting money and spending it represents the ability to pay for labor; that's the dominant cost of most expenses! I'm not too familiar with the Chicago housing market, but in the New York market these fees go to pay full-time salaries for supers, doormen, elevator men, maintenance folk, etc., many of whom also get housing in the building at a reduced or included rate.
  - b112 4y ago
    Not sure how you figure? 2k plus a room.
- martinflack 4y ago
  One would have to check that particular example, but in general, there are buildings in SF and NYC where the HOA fee covers amenities that are, frankly, hotel-like. Staffed gym with climbing wall, 24/7 valet parking, food can be sent up from the ground-floor cafe at no delivery cost, etc.
- abawany 4y ago
  Everyone forgets about insurance, which often comprises a major portion of expenses especially as buildings gets older and the hoa management gets less eager to price shop.
rr888 4y ago
> $2,000/mo HOA fees Sounds like it could have been a co-op which would include taxes in the HOA.
- npc54321 4y ago
bsimpson 4y ago
My first apartment in SF was a condo. The landlady offered to sell it to me, but I lost interest when I realized $1600 of the $1900 I paid in rent went to the HOA.
bombcar 4y ago
HOAs can go from the bare minimum "we pay someone to mow the center divider" (some will actually exist and have no fees) to the "we pay for the entire country club this house is part of, including limo service and more". Condo HOAs usually cover the maintenance of the shared building parts (HVAC, roof, plumbing outside the units, etc). One danger sign is a condo with a HOA that is too low - it likely means maintenance is being put off or done incorrectly or you're going to get hit with a special assessment soon.
- ericbarrett 4y ago
  Yes, but I ended up buying a 1br in SF for a comparable price. The HOA fee was $650/mo. The building had 24/7 front desk staff, twice-monthly unit cleaning service, a small gym, a hot tub, and a full-time building engineer. All the while dealing with a lawsuit against the builder for leaks. And our reserve was quite funded. Where was the money going in Chicago?
  - fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
    Probably worse maintenance issues, and no builder to fix it for them.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    If they were suing the builder, it was probably still a relatively new building. Older buildings start getting hit with the "every 20/50 years" maintenance, and also get hit with lawsuits against the building/HOA itself. Those can start to add up over time. And the size of the building can also affect it; a smaller building with the same amenities would have higher HOA fees. I personally wouldn't touch them with a fifty state pole, but some people like it.
conductr 4y ago
These cost levels are either employing a lot of service (valet, doorman, etc) or are under-accrued for the big CapEx bills they have coming due (careful!)

b112 4y ago

I cannot even think, what is worth that HOA. You could literally hire a full time person, 40hrs per week + give them a room in your house, for that.

addaon 4y ago
Not sure how you figure? Minimum wage in Illinois comes to $2600/month for 40 hours/week. You're giving them a room in a place where the prevailing rent is clearly over $2000/month, which is hard to price at less than $1000/month (a "two roommates" situation)... so your proposed value package is well over twice the HOA fee.
- t-3 4y ago
  No, it's not. Minimum wage in Illinois is $12/hour. 12 x 40 x 4.3 = 2064.
  - addaon 4y ago
    $15.40 in Chicago, where the housing under discussion is located.
- Retric 4y ago
  Illinois minimum wage is 11$/hour on their website, though I have also seen 12$ listed elsewhere. https://www.illinois.gov/services/service.find-minimum-wage-information.html https://www.illinois.gov/services/service.find-minimum-wage-... So 11 * 40 * 52 / 12 = 1906$/month + SS.
  - addaon 4y ago
    $15.40 in Chicago, where the housing under discussion is located.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 4y ago
      Single employee is 11$/hour in Chicago unless they are a domestic worker. $15.40 for employers with 21 or more employees (including all domestic workers, regardless of the number employed) $14.50 for employers with 4-20 employees https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/minimumwageinformation.html https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/bacp/supp_info/minimum... But, you can subtract reasonable room and board fees, so actual cost could be lower if you had a spare room and someone was willing to take the job.
- meragrin_ 4y ago
  Nah, more than one person pays the HOA fee. Ten people paying put it at $20k a month. $4600 a month is not even a quarter of that.
  - addaon 4y ago
    I think we might be saying the same thing? My reading of the grandparent was that the individual responsibility for the HOA / maintenance fee was outrageous because it "literally" represented approximate CoL for a whole additional human, which just isn't accurate. But the entire point of these collective fees is to pool them and use them for amenities which are not available to individuals. Of course collecting money and spending it represents the ability to pay for labor; that's the dominant cost of most expenses! I'm not too familiar with the Chicago housing market, but in the New York market these fees go to pay full-time salaries for supers, doormen, elevator men, maintenance folk, etc., many of whom also get housing in the building at a reduced or included rate.
- b112 4y ago
  Not sure how you figure? 2k plus a room.
martinflack 4y ago
One would have to check that particular example, but in general, there are buildings in SF and NYC where the HOA fee covers amenities that are, frankly, hotel-like. Staffed gym with climbing wall, 24/7 valet parking, food can be sent up from the ground-floor cafe at no delivery cost, etc.
abawany 4y ago
Everyone forgets about insurance, which often comprises a major portion of expenses especially as buildings gets older and the hoa management gets less eager to price shop.

rr888 4y ago

> $2,000/mo HOA fees Sounds like it could have been a co-op which would include taxes in the HOA.

npc54321 4y ago

bsimpson 4y ago

My first apartment in SF was a condo. The landlady offered to sell it to me, but I lost interest when I realized $1600 of the $1900 I paid in rent went to the HOA.

bombcar 4y ago

HOAs can go from the bare minimum "we pay someone to mow the center divider" (some will actually exist and have no fees) to the "we pay for the entire country club this house is part of, including limo service and more". Condo HOAs usually cover the maintenance of the shared building parts (HVAC, roof, plumbing outside the units, etc). One danger sign is a condo with a HOA that is too low - it likely means maintenance is being put off or done incorrectly or you're going to get hit with a special assessment soon.

ericbarrett 4y ago
Yes, but I ended up buying a 1br in SF for a comparable price. The HOA fee was $650/mo. The building had 24/7 front desk staff, twice-monthly unit cleaning service, a small gym, a hot tub, and a full-time building engineer. All the while dealing with a lawsuit against the builder for leaks. And our reserve was quite funded. Where was the money going in Chicago?
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  Probably worse maintenance issues, and no builder to fix it for them.
- bombcar 4y ago
  If they were suing the builder, it was probably still a relatively new building. Older buildings start getting hit with the "every 20/50 years" maintenance, and also get hit with lawsuits against the building/HOA itself. Those can start to add up over time. And the size of the building can also affect it; a smaller building with the same amenities would have higher HOA fees. I personally wouldn't touch them with a fifty state pole, but some people like it.

conductr 4y ago

These cost levels are either employing a lot of service (valet, doorman, etc) or are under-accrued for the big CapEx bills they have coming due (careful!)