4 ms·

What do you think makes live/work housing more desirable than just live? I haven’t seen live work spaces and I’m not sure what the allure would be. I used to b

What do you think makes live/work housing more desirable than just live? I haven’t seen live work spaces and I’m not sure what the allure would be. I used to be in the city, in essentially a shoe box that cost 5k a month, but with a fancy gym and common area. I moved to Marin during COVID and while I miss the food and walking distance/public transit activities I could do, I don’t think I can go back to the extremely small for the money living area. I’m hopeful a glut of new housing, hopefully spacious, will change that calculus.

giantg2 4y ago
This sort of setup would cross my mind while in college. The allure is that it would be similar to college - young people enthusiastic for learning but having fun too, no commuting, etc. As I got older it seems more like a nightmare since I hate my job and require more space/independence for my lifestyle/hobbies/family.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  It's all about what those hobbies lifestyle is. My wife and I made the opposite move. We had a house, a life, in the suburbs for more than a decade and now happily live in a 1 bedroom loft in SOMA. I would say that for our life, we live in a smaller (it's still pretty big, and not actually that expensive) in the city exactly because of the lifestyle/hobbies/family life we enjoy as a result. It's like the city is your living room.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    True about the hobby types. I still think it generally applies for the live-work setup though. Mostly because it seems most people don't like their jobs and want a disconnect between their spaces. Also because of professional appearances etc influencing your off-hours activities if your coworkers are watching. Even though work and housing aren't in the same buildings, military housing can provide a good lens into this.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Yeah, in either case healthy boundaries are important.
    - nordsieck 4y ago
      > military housing can provide a good lens into this. IMO, that's not really fair - at least for barracks. And I don't really think that "married" house style housing really applies since it's a suburb that just happens to be inside the base. 1. You don't own your barracks room. You generally don't have any ability to change furniture, appliances, paint, etc. 2. Barracks typically offer little privacy - there are periodic inspections, limits on guests, etc. 3. Military culture is a bit weird - there is often a very strong drinking culture, etc. It's not clear to me that the same social forces exist for a civilian live-work building. 4. The barracks are sometimes raided for off-hours extra duty. This downside doesn't really exist in the same way for civilians.
      - willcipriano 4y ago
        > The barracks are sometimes raided for off-hours extra duty. This downside doesn't really exist in the same way for civilians. Yet. "Ron, according to the security system there was movement inside of your company dorm room last night at 8PM when we emailed you. Since you were just at home anyway why did you decide to not be a team player?"
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Yeah, I'm not talking about barracks, but more like the family apartments or houses. The main issue I see crossing over in either civilian or military life with this setup is that everyone in that "suburb" works for the same employer. There can certainly be issues where personal problems become career problems and vice-versa. At least military housing is segregated by grade, but the civilian side could have you living right next to your boss. Too bad if they don't like something you do. "The barracks are sometimes raided for off-hours extra duty." Unless you work in IT and are on-call or the on-call doesn't answer (not fully the same, but still...).
grepLeigh 4y ago
Zoning is the important piece. In a live/work building, tradespeople can run appointment-based services businesses like: Hair/nail salons, waxing and esthetician services, makeup and photo studios, etc. Every nail salon in 10 square-block radius of me (in SF, SOMA) closed during the pandemic. SF residential rents aren't affordable for a trade/services businessperson. Tradespeople stopped commuting 2+ hours into the city when businesses fled. For a city to thrive, services/trade labor needs to live near their work. On a personal level, I want to run a small manufacturing shop to dog-food my own product (https://printnanny.ai/ https://printnanny.ai/ - automation for 3D printer ecommerce shops). My options are currently: * Move to a single-family home in surburbia, so I can work out of a garage/shed. * Lease a business-zoned office suite in SF, commute every day. * Live in a building zoned for business/residential, so I can legally run an office without inviting ire from an SF condo HOA.
- achenet 4y ago
  and also, * leave the Bay Area and go somewhere with higher quality of life and lower real estate prices (read: basically anywhere that isn't Tokyo or NYC), go for residential housing + commercial property unless you have some reason to pick SF?
  - grepLeigh 4y ago
    I like it here! I might even love living here - at least enough to want to dig in and tackle tractable problems, like converting commercial real estate to housing supply.

giantg2 4y ago

This sort of setup would cross my mind while in college. The allure is that it would be similar to college - young people enthusiastic for learning but having fun too, no commuting, etc. As I got older it seems more like a nightmare since I hate my job and require more space/independence for my lifestyle/hobbies/family.

iancmceachern 4y ago
It's all about what those hobbies lifestyle is. My wife and I made the opposite move. We had a house, a life, in the suburbs for more than a decade and now happily live in a 1 bedroom loft in SOMA. I would say that for our life, we live in a smaller (it's still pretty big, and not actually that expensive) in the city exactly because of the lifestyle/hobbies/family life we enjoy as a result. It's like the city is your living room.
- giantg2 4y ago
  True about the hobby types. I still think it generally applies for the live-work setup though. Mostly because it seems most people don't like their jobs and want a disconnect between their spaces. Also because of professional appearances etc influencing your off-hours activities if your coworkers are watching. Even though work and housing aren't in the same buildings, military housing can provide a good lens into this.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Yeah, in either case healthy boundaries are important.
  - nordsieck 4y ago
    > military housing can provide a good lens into this. IMO, that's not really fair - at least for barracks. And I don't really think that "married" house style housing really applies since it's a suburb that just happens to be inside the base. 1. You don't own your barracks room. You generally don't have any ability to change furniture, appliances, paint, etc. 2. Barracks typically offer little privacy - there are periodic inspections, limits on guests, etc. 3. Military culture is a bit weird - there is often a very strong drinking culture, etc. It's not clear to me that the same social forces exist for a civilian live-work building. 4. The barracks are sometimes raided for off-hours extra duty. This downside doesn't really exist in the same way for civilians.
    - willcipriano 4y ago
      > The barracks are sometimes raided for off-hours extra duty. This downside doesn't really exist in the same way for civilians. Yet. "Ron, according to the security system there was movement inside of your company dorm room last night at 8PM when we emailed you. Since you were just at home anyway why did you decide to not be a team player?"
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Yeah, I'm not talking about barracks, but more like the family apartments or houses. The main issue I see crossing over in either civilian or military life with this setup is that everyone in that "suburb" works for the same employer. There can certainly be issues where personal problems become career problems and vice-versa. At least military housing is segregated by grade, but the civilian side could have you living right next to your boss. Too bad if they don't like something you do. "The barracks are sometimes raided for off-hours extra duty." Unless you work in IT and are on-call or the on-call doesn't answer (not fully the same, but still...).

grepLeigh 4y ago

Zoning is the important piece. In a live/work building, tradespeople can run appointment-based services businesses like: Hair/nail salons, waxing and esthetician services, makeup and photo studios, etc. Every nail salon in 10 square-block radius of me (in SF, SOMA) closed during the pandemic. SF residential rents aren't affordable for a trade/services businessperson. Tradespeople stopped commuting 2+ hours into the city when businesses fled. For a city to thrive, services/trade labor needs to live near their work. On a personal level, I want to run a small manufacturing shop to dog-food my own product (https://printnanny.ai/ https://printnanny.ai/ - automation for 3D printer ecommerce shops). My options are currently: * Move to a single-family home in surburbia, so I can work out of a garage/shed. * Lease a business-zoned office suite in SF, commute every day. * Live in a building zoned for business/residential, so I can legally run an office without inviting ire from an SF condo HOA.

achenet 4y ago
and also, * leave the Bay Area and go somewhere with higher quality of life and lower real estate prices (read: basically anywhere that isn't Tokyo or NYC), go for residential housing + commercial property unless you have some reason to pick SF?
- grepLeigh 4y ago
  I like it here! I might even love living here - at least enough to want to dig in and tackle tractable problems, like converting commercial real estate to housing supply.