4 ms·

the secret sauce here is that "ports collection/packages collection" aka anything useful beyond service NAT gateway/network router is not a system! from the do

the secret sauce here is that "ports collection/packages collection" aka anything useful beyond service NAT gateway/network router is not a system! from the docs: > FreeBSD is bundled with a rich collection of system tools as part of the base system. In addition, FreeBSD provides two complementary technologies for installing third-party software: the FreeBSD Ports Collection, for installing from source, and packages, for installing from pre-built binaries. Thus, when FreeBSD guys say "my system is solid" - means he can use ping/top/csh. But if update breaks say Firefox - it's not part of the system and haha, system is stable!

anthk 4y ago
FreeBSD users with issues will just recompile Firefox from the ports. Also, I am an OpenBSD user (not FreeBSD), and I can say packages are much better maintained than in the 99% of the distros.
- CoolCold 4y ago
  I was trying to produce good example on differences in reading "stable system" on FreeBSD vs Linux worlds, when definition on what is "system" differs. No anything specific I have to put against Firefox or any other application here.
adrian_b 4y ago
I never use csh, the first step when I install FreeBSD is to install bash. Most of the programs that I use on FreeBSD come from ports, not from the base system (they are various networking applications like squid or samba or nginx), even if I use some functions from the base system, e.g. firewall/NAT/routing, some times the NFS server. Nevertheless, I did not have problems with inconsistencies in the ports collection, and that includes Firefox (which I use some times together with vncserver, so I can use it remotely even if I do not normally install the X11 server on FreeBSD). It is true however that on FreeBSD I have used only seldom programs with GUI interfaces, Firefox being an exception to that, and those are usually among the programs more likely to be broken by updates on Linux systems.
nortonham 4y ago
I take your point, but I've used freebsd on a laptop before and never had 3rd party software (like firefox) break after an update. FreeBSD really is stable. For desktops/laptops I would probably lean towards a linux distro first due to hw support, but FreeBSD being stale/solid is no joke.
0x457 4y ago
nah, I used FreeBSD on desktop, and I was tracking CURRENT with weekly rebuilds. The only time things "broke" for me is when X11 on FreeBSD switched to libinput by default. Never had issues with anything else: - nvidia drivers always worked, unlike ubuntu that tried to install opensource-not-working-driver every time it gets - My keyboard remapping worked every upgrade. Ubuntu broke it major release, Arch broke it from time to time. Fedora I didn't even bother. - Most of my software was always on bleeding edge release when possible - Docker in bhyve worked better than on linux because I could just restart VM - Not once, my bootloader went foobar in 20 years (with GRUB I live in constant fear) Now, if FreeBSD folks stopped with perfectionism and finally landed GPU and WiFi drivers...I'd be still using it. Now I won't switch back though, I'm far too friendly with Nix.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > - nvidia drivers always worked, unlike ubuntu that tried to install opensource-not-working-driver every time it gets Many, many moons ago a video game called Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released, and in addition to a Linux server where you could host multi-player games, it actually had a Linux client. I played on the Linux client for a while with an NVidia GPU. But my main desktop was FreeBSD at the time, and so instead of dual-booting I used FreeBSD's Linux API/ABI emulation to play RtCW with FreeBSD NVidia drivers. I even got a few more FPS under FreeBSD. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Castle_Wolfenstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Castle_Wolfenstein
toast0 4y ago
I'm not going to debate if ports/pkg is solid or not, either way it sure is nice to have a solid system at the base. On Linux, where the base is intermingled with everything else, it's a lot easier to upgrade packages and break the whole system, because there's no distinction between packages and the base system.

anthk 4y ago

FreeBSD users with issues will just recompile Firefox from the ports. Also, I am an OpenBSD user (not FreeBSD), and I can say packages are much better maintained than in the 99% of the distros.

CoolCold 4y ago
I was trying to produce good example on differences in reading "stable system" on FreeBSD vs Linux worlds, when definition on what is "system" differs. No anything specific I have to put against Firefox or any other application here.

adrian_b 4y ago

I never use csh, the first step when I install FreeBSD is to install bash. Most of the programs that I use on FreeBSD come from ports, not from the base system (they are various networking applications like squid or samba or nginx), even if I use some functions from the base system, e.g. firewall/NAT/routing, some times the NFS server. Nevertheless, I did not have problems with inconsistencies in the ports collection, and that includes Firefox (which I use some times together with vncserver, so I can use it remotely even if I do not normally install the X11 server on FreeBSD). It is true however that on FreeBSD I have used only seldom programs with GUI interfaces, Firefox being an exception to that, and those are usually among the programs more likely to be broken by updates on Linux systems.

nortonham 4y ago

I take your point, but I've used freebsd on a laptop before and never had 3rd party software (like firefox) break after an update. FreeBSD really is stable. For desktops/laptops I would probably lean towards a linux distro first due to hw support, but FreeBSD being stale/solid is no joke.

0x457 4y ago

nah, I used FreeBSD on desktop, and I was tracking CURRENT with weekly rebuilds. The only time things "broke" for me is when X11 on FreeBSD switched to libinput by default. Never had issues with anything else: - nvidia drivers always worked, unlike ubuntu that tried to install opensource-not-working-driver every time it gets - My keyboard remapping worked every upgrade. Ubuntu broke it major release, Arch broke it from time to time. Fedora I didn't even bother. - Most of my software was always on bleeding edge release when possible - Docker in bhyve worked better than on linux because I could just restart VM - Not once, my bootloader went foobar in 20 years (with GRUB I live in constant fear) Now, if FreeBSD folks stopped with perfectionism and finally landed GPU and WiFi drivers...I'd be still using it. Now I won't switch back though, I'm far too friendly with Nix.

throw0101a 4y ago
> - nvidia drivers always worked, unlike ubuntu that tried to install opensource-not-working-driver every time it gets Many, many moons ago a video game called Return to Castle Wolfenstein was released, and in addition to a Linux server where you could host multi-player games, it actually had a Linux client. I played on the Linux client for a while with an NVidia GPU. But my main desktop was FreeBSD at the time, and so instead of dual-booting I used FreeBSD's Linux API/ABI emulation to play RtCW with FreeBSD NVidia drivers. I even got a few more FPS under FreeBSD. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Castle_Wolfenstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Castle_Wolfenstein

toast0 4y ago

I'm not going to debate if ports/pkg is solid or not, either way it sure is nice to have a solid system at the base. On Linux, where the base is intermingled with everything else, it's a lot easier to upgrade packages and break the whole system, because there's no distinction between packages and the base system.