3 ms·

> such transfer would never take place under natural conditions How confident are we that is the case? HIV resulted from the fusion of, IIRC, three virii in a

> such transfer would never take place under natural conditions How confident are we that is the case? HIV resulted from the fusion of, IIRC, three virii in a host animal. The odds of any single such event are vanishingly small, but that stacks against how many cells per second a virus can infect, worldwide. Life is a frightening goodness-of-fit optimizer at the scale of microorganization.

mgamache 4y ago
It would never take place between animals that don't naturally cohabitate.
photochemsyn 4y ago
Studying rare historical accidents of evolution that resulted in pandemics to see how they took place is one thing, but creating hundreds of such accidents of evolution deliberately to see how many novel deadly pathogens one can create is quite another. In the case of HIV: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3234451/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3234451/ Now, should we start taking all the viruses known to infect every species of squirrel, rat, monkey, gorilla and chimpanzee and start splicing in motifs that bind, say, the top 100 most common human cell-surface receptors in order to see what's the most dangerous virus - with the optimal mix of mortality and transmissibility (R factor) - we can create, the one best able to cause a global human pandemic? That's insane, and there's no justification for it.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Is that research done? I don't think that's an accurate description of gain-of-function research; I thought it was more focused than "just throw everything in a beaker and see what happens." I agree that's a bad idea.
  - tsimionescu 4y ago
    It's more focused exactly in the sense that it is specifically targeting known-dangerous characteristics - hence gain of function: they're aiming to increase the virus' ability to do something.
throwaway43903 4y ago
johndfsgdgdfg 4y ago
Thank you for posting this. Racists are claiming that COVID came from China. But WHO-China investigation has found that COVID couldn't have come from China. Even virologists have been expressing their support for Chinese scientists. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

mgamache 4y ago

It would never take place between animals that don't naturally cohabitate.

photochemsyn 4y ago

Studying rare historical accidents of evolution that resulted in pandemics to see how they took place is one thing, but creating hundreds of such accidents of evolution deliberately to see how many novel deadly pathogens one can create is quite another. In the case of HIV: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3234451/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3234451/ Now, should we start taking all the viruses known to infect every species of squirrel, rat, monkey, gorilla and chimpanzee and start splicing in motifs that bind, say, the top 100 most common human cell-surface receptors in order to see what's the most dangerous virus - with the optimal mix of mortality and transmissibility (R factor) - we can create, the one best able to cause a global human pandemic? That's insane, and there's no justification for it.

shadowgovt 4y ago
Is that research done? I don't think that's an accurate description of gain-of-function research; I thought it was more focused than "just throw everything in a beaker and see what happens." I agree that's a bad idea.
- tsimionescu 4y ago
  It's more focused exactly in the sense that it is specifically targeting known-dangerous characteristics - hence gain of function: they're aiming to increase the virus' ability to do something.

throwaway43903 4y ago

johndfsgdgdfg 4y ago

Thank you for posting this. Racists are claiming that COVID came from China. But WHO-China investigation has found that COVID couldn't have come from China. Even virologists have been expressing their support for Chinese scientists. [1] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...