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This kind of bluster is a mainstay of Chinese geopolitics. The law was intentionally written in an open-ended way so that the party always gets the final say on

This kind of bluster is a mainstay of Chinese geopolitics. The law was intentionally written in an open-ended way so that the party always gets the final say on what "completely exhausted" should mean. It serves as a propaganda tool internally and a point of leverage externally -- the party never needs to actually act on the threat for it to serve a valuable purpose. With that being said, it's not that simple. Bluster isn't just a political tactic -- it also enables the military to slowly chip away at norms and edge closer towards a strategic advantage (e.g.: progressively violating more and more of Taiwan's sovereign airspace). If the party could have things their way, the military would merely continue pushing the envelope until one day a D-Day assault force seemingly randomly washes up on Taiwan's doorstep.

greggsy 4y ago
Exactly - they’re not constrained by the same four-ish year terms held in most democratic countries, and are able to play out twenty- and even fifty-year scenarios without too much domestic uncertainty. That strategy manifests in that slow chipping away: they don’t need to do things all at once.
- chrischen 4y ago
  It also manifests in potentially bad management that keeps itself going such as the current administration’s braindead covid policies.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Braindead from an American perspective, it is also likely those policies have averted upwards of 4 million deaths.
    - d_graeme 4y ago
      Exactly. Tbh its constantly surprising why Americans view the CCPs zero-covid policy as a failure. Even the most pessimistic reports (based on actual facts, not tabloid-driven wishful thinking) acknowledges that China has avoided at least 2 million+ deaths through their zero covid policy. Is the right to life no longer a human right? Or have a lot of us so internalized anti-China propaganda that we're no longer able to think logically?
      - gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
        Could the same deaths have been prevented by deploying better policies? Remember that millions of people we forcibly locked in their homes. They faced food shortages. They have their lives ruined because they couldn’t make a living. All of this because the CCP wants zero Covid rather than a rational policy of limiting the most at risk to the disease and allowing the population to get natural immunity from getting sick.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        I do not think 4 million people+ died due to lockdowns in China.
        gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
        Directly? No. By suicide and future complications due to having their life upended/destroyed yeah. The CCP should have purchase novavax for the shot (they still should given China’s low jab rate) and allowed the majority of people to live their lives. Covid for the majority posses little risk.
        lovich 4y ago
        Kinda hard to take this seriously when you’re using anti vaxxer slang(jab). If you didn’t mean it that way just giving you a heads up that it immediately clocked as an anti vaxx dog whistle.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        I disagree that that is anti-vaxxer slang, I think it is just a Britishism. Indeed I believe their govt calls it a jab.
        lovich 4y ago
        May be cultural differences then. In the US and Canada the anti vaxxers will pejoratively refer to the vaccine as “the jab” or taking it as “getting the jab”
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrischen 4y ago
      Actually I live in Japan and Japan has implemented exactly 0 lockdowns. While policies have reduced the number of people walking about, there are still more people shoulder to shoulder on a daily basis than anywhere in the US.
      - adaml_623 4y ago
        Are they wearing masks? I look around where I am and wonder why aren't more of us wearing masks?
        rnk 4y ago
        If you are in the US, half the us thinks masks and taking care not to communicate deadly diseases to them in some evil attempt to control them. In my world, all my friends know it's real and masks help protect you, but they are just so tired of it. I'm tired of it, but I still wear one, don't eat at inside restaurants, etc. But most people stopped thinking of covid as that disease that can really hurt you, if you are unlucky enough. Half the time I'm tempted not to wear a mask - my wife gets frustrated at me, but I do wear one when out at the store etc.
treis 4y ago
Nitpick, but AFAIK China hasn't violated Taiwan's airspace. Taiwan says they'd treat it as an act of war if they did. Taiwan has an Air Defense Identification Zone where they track aircraft and aircraft entering it are supposed to identify themselves. This extends over the Chinese mainland and it's this zone that everyone talks about China "violating". But it's Chinese airspace and ultimately they have the right to fly there without notifying Taiwan.
- hunglee2 4y ago
  not a nitpick at all, stating facts never is, regardless of the downvotes
- O__________O 4y ago
  Chinese missile went directly over the island near the capital of Taiwan: - https://japan-forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/JF-Graphics-Zones-Where-Chinese-Military-Exercises-Have-Taken-Place.jpg https://japan-forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/JF-Grap... Source: - https://japan-forward.com/editorial-chinas-missile-tantrum-threatens-many-nations-not-just-taiwan/ https://japan-forward.com/editorial-chinas-missile-tantrum-t...
VictorPath 4y ago
> Taiwan's sovereign airspace Well, only 13 countries recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country - such as the 10,000 people of the 21 square kilometer island Naura. Also, Taiwan occupies Kinmen Island in the bay of Xiamen's harbor on the PRC mainland. The island is in the Xiamen harbor and is 10 km from the city of Xiamen. So any PRC planes flying around Xiamen are "violating Taiwan's sovereign airspace" (which almost no one recognizes as "sovereign" - one of the main parties on Taiwan acknowledges Taiwan and the mainland are all one country).
- rmah 4y ago
  It's complicated. Even Taiwan doesn't recognize Taiwan (Republic of China) as a sovereign nation, separate and distinct from the Peoples Republic of China. There are Taiwanese political groups that do want that but they haven't gotten their way so far. Either way, you probably meant that 13 nations have full and formal diplomatic relationships with Taiwan. Which, btw does not include the US, Japan or any EU nations.
  - soperj 4y ago
    It's not really that complicated. After WW2 the Communists drove the Republic of China govt out of mainland China. So mainland China is controlled by the communists and Taiwan by the remnants of the Republic of China government. Republic of China government still claims to be the rightful government of all of China (Taiwan included), same with the Communist government.
    - rnk 4y ago
      And the people of Taiwan don't want to communist Chinese mainland govt to come and kill all their leaders, imprison people and take away their freedom, like the folks in officially happy Hong Kong. Adding on to your comment, it's pretty obvious why anyone would want to stay out of China's control.
cameldrv 4y ago
> progressively violating more and more of Taiwan's sovereign airspace Just in terms of international law, the Chinese flights near Taiwan are provocative but don’t violate any laws. The U.S. and Russia still do this sort of thing all the time. An ADIZ is not sovereign airspace.
- kurthr 4y ago
  Launching so many missiles over a space of 36 hours that you entirely close airspace and waterways (and apparently over the island) is a little different from flying an airplane at the edge of controlled airspace. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220805-chinese-missiles-flew-over-taiwan-during-drills-state-media https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220805-chinese-missi... That happened during the Pelosi trip in August, and the jingoists were angry it didn't go further. The likelihood of an effective air/sea embargo on Taiwan is more likely than an initial invasion.
- lossolo 4y ago
  International law is not a good example here because actually if you look at international law then Taiwan is part of China and formally it's considered as part of China by US, EU etc. Taiwan is not a state from perspective of international law so from this perspective it doesn't have sovereign airspace.
  - frankharv 4y ago
    I thought China snubbed their noses at International rulings regarding the South China Sea? Now they get respect from same authorities? Can't have it both ways. Join world system or reject it. https://www.cfr.org/councilofcouncils/global-memos/hague-tribunals-south-china-sea-ruling-empty-provocation-or-slow-burning-influence https://www.cfr.org/councilofcouncils/global-memos/hague-tri...
    - dirtyid 4y ago
      >snubbed their noses The PCA "rulings" aren't international law because UN (which PRC accept as international system) has no formal position on them / has not adopted any parts of the decision. Ergo, PRC's SCS position is consistent with international law - like the actual one at UN, not make believe US "rules based order" which was behind PCA lawfare campaign and the ongoing propaganda. PRC is more firmly within bounds of the "world system", versus US who tries to enforce FONAPs despite not ratifying UNCLOS, and doesn't respect the kind of international law that it accused PRC of violating, see ITLOS ruling (an actual UN ruling) regarding UK/US military base on Chagos/Mauritius/Diego Garcia.

greggsy 4y ago

Exactly - they’re not constrained by the same four-ish year terms held in most democratic countries, and are able to play out twenty- and even fifty-year scenarios without too much domestic uncertainty. That strategy manifests in that slow chipping away: they don’t need to do things all at once.

chrischen 4y ago
It also manifests in potentially bad management that keeps itself going such as the current administration’s braindead covid policies.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Braindead from an American perspective, it is also likely those policies have averted upwards of 4 million deaths.
  - d_graeme 4y ago
    Exactly. Tbh its constantly surprising why Americans view the CCPs zero-covid policy as a failure. Even the most pessimistic reports (based on actual facts, not tabloid-driven wishful thinking) acknowledges that China has avoided at least 2 million+ deaths through their zero covid policy. Is the right to life no longer a human right? Or have a lot of us so internalized anti-China propaganda that we're no longer able to think logically?
    - gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
      Could the same deaths have been prevented by deploying better policies? Remember that millions of people we forcibly locked in their homes. They faced food shortages. They have their lives ruined because they couldn’t make a living. All of this because the CCP wants zero Covid rather than a rational policy of limiting the most at risk to the disease and allowing the population to get natural immunity from getting sick.
      - whimsicalism 4y ago
        I do not think 4 million people+ died due to lockdowns in China.
        gadflyinyoureye 4y ago
        Directly? No. By suicide and future complications due to having their life upended/destroyed yeah. The CCP should have purchase novavax for the shot (they still should given China’s low jab rate) and allowed the majority of people to live their lives. Covid for the majority posses little risk.
        lovich 4y ago
        Kinda hard to take this seriously when you’re using anti vaxxer slang(jab). If you didn’t mean it that way just giving you a heads up that it immediately clocked as an anti vaxx dog whistle.
        whimsicalism 4y ago
        I disagree that that is anti-vaxxer slang, I think it is just a Britishism. Indeed I believe their govt calls it a jab.
        lovich 4y ago
        May be cultural differences then. In the US and Canada the anti vaxxers will pejoratively refer to the vaccine as “the jab” or taking it as “getting the jab”
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrischen 4y ago
    Actually I live in Japan and Japan has implemented exactly 0 lockdowns. While policies have reduced the number of people walking about, there are still more people shoulder to shoulder on a daily basis than anywhere in the US.
    - adaml_623 4y ago
      Are they wearing masks? I look around where I am and wonder why aren't more of us wearing masks?
      - rnk 4y ago
        If you are in the US, half the us thinks masks and taking care not to communicate deadly diseases to them in some evil attempt to control them. In my world, all my friends know it's real and masks help protect you, but they are just so tired of it. I'm tired of it, but I still wear one, don't eat at inside restaurants, etc. But most people stopped thinking of covid as that disease that can really hurt you, if you are unlucky enough. Half the time I'm tempted not to wear a mask - my wife gets frustrated at me, but I do wear one when out at the store etc.

treis 4y ago

Nitpick, but AFAIK China hasn't violated Taiwan's airspace. Taiwan says they'd treat it as an act of war if they did. Taiwan has an Air Defense Identification Zone where they track aircraft and aircraft entering it are supposed to identify themselves. This extends over the Chinese mainland and it's this zone that everyone talks about China "violating". But it's Chinese airspace and ultimately they have the right to fly there without notifying Taiwan.

hunglee2 4y ago
not a nitpick at all, stating facts never is, regardless of the downvotes
O__________O 4y ago
Chinese missile went directly over the island near the capital of Taiwan: - https://japan-forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/JF-Graphics-Zones-Where-Chinese-Military-Exercises-Have-Taken-Place.jpg https://japan-forward.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/JF-Grap... Source: - https://japan-forward.com/editorial-chinas-missile-tantrum-threatens-many-nations-not-just-taiwan/ https://japan-forward.com/editorial-chinas-missile-tantrum-t...

VictorPath 4y ago

> Taiwan's sovereign airspace Well, only 13 countries recognize Taiwan as a sovereign country - such as the 10,000 people of the 21 square kilometer island Naura. Also, Taiwan occupies Kinmen Island in the bay of Xiamen's harbor on the PRC mainland. The island is in the Xiamen harbor and is 10 km from the city of Xiamen. So any PRC planes flying around Xiamen are "violating Taiwan's sovereign airspace" (which almost no one recognizes as "sovereign" - one of the main parties on Taiwan acknowledges Taiwan and the mainland are all one country).

rmah 4y ago
It's complicated. Even Taiwan doesn't recognize Taiwan (Republic of China) as a sovereign nation, separate and distinct from the Peoples Republic of China. There are Taiwanese political groups that do want that but they haven't gotten their way so far. Either way, you probably meant that 13 nations have full and formal diplomatic relationships with Taiwan. Which, btw does not include the US, Japan or any EU nations.
- soperj 4y ago
  It's not really that complicated. After WW2 the Communists drove the Republic of China govt out of mainland China. So mainland China is controlled by the communists and Taiwan by the remnants of the Republic of China government. Republic of China government still claims to be the rightful government of all of China (Taiwan included), same with the Communist government.
  - rnk 4y ago
    And the people of Taiwan don't want to communist Chinese mainland govt to come and kill all their leaders, imprison people and take away their freedom, like the folks in officially happy Hong Kong. Adding on to your comment, it's pretty obvious why anyone would want to stay out of China's control.

cameldrv 4y ago

> progressively violating more and more of Taiwan's sovereign airspace Just in terms of international law, the Chinese flights near Taiwan are provocative but don’t violate any laws. The U.S. and Russia still do this sort of thing all the time. An ADIZ is not sovereign airspace.

kurthr 4y ago
Launching so many missiles over a space of 36 hours that you entirely close airspace and waterways (and apparently over the island) is a little different from flying an airplane at the edge of controlled airspace. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220805-chinese-missiles-flew-over-taiwan-during-drills-state-media https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220805-chinese-missi... That happened during the Pelosi trip in August, and the jingoists were angry it didn't go further. The likelihood of an effective air/sea embargo on Taiwan is more likely than an initial invasion.
lossolo 4y ago
International law is not a good example here because actually if you look at international law then Taiwan is part of China and formally it's considered as part of China by US, EU etc. Taiwan is not a state from perspective of international law so from this perspective it doesn't have sovereign airspace.
- frankharv 4y ago
  I thought China snubbed their noses at International rulings regarding the South China Sea? Now they get respect from same authorities? Can't have it both ways. Join world system or reject it. https://www.cfr.org/councilofcouncils/global-memos/hague-tribunals-south-china-sea-ruling-empty-provocation-or-slow-burning-influence https://www.cfr.org/councilofcouncils/global-memos/hague-tri...
  - dirtyid 4y ago
    >snubbed their noses The PCA "rulings" aren't international law because UN (which PRC accept as international system) has no formal position on them / has not adopted any parts of the decision. Ergo, PRC's SCS position is consistent with international law - like the actual one at UN, not make believe US "rules based order" which was behind PCA lawfare campaign and the ongoing propaganda. PRC is more firmly within bounds of the "world system", versus US who tries to enforce FONAPs despite not ratifying UNCLOS, and doesn't respect the kind of international law that it accused PRC of violating, see ITLOS ruling (an actual UN ruling) regarding UK/US military base on Chagos/Mauritius/Diego Garcia.