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The sonar ping is what transmits over great distance - that's why it's used. The drone can transmit the ping and the sub can listen. If I'm hiding in the dark

The sonar ping is what transmits over great distance - that's why it's used. The drone can transmit the ping and the sub can listen. If I'm hiding in the darkness I can send a drone out with a lightbulb to shine a light near what I want to see without revealing myself.

lazide 4y ago
A mile is far, far too close then. A square mile of ocean is a VERY small search place compared to what they would start with. And how would the drone know to 'flash the flashlight' where it was useful to the sub without the sub somehow communicating to the drone? Which would require the sub to emit something, or preprogram it before release. Not to mention, unless the sub stayed in one place or somehow communicated with the drone, it would have to stay in one place to have any chance to recover it. Even then, odds of finding the hidden black spot on it’s own with inertial guidance aren’t great if it’s away for long. If it was programmed into the drone when it was launched, just the drone coming to and from the sub would draw a giant red line to and from the sub. It would also severely restrict the sub - it either has to program in a path, in which case the drone will illustrate where the sub WILL BE shortly, or it has to do a one-off, in which case anyone could listen to/follow the drone back to the sub when it's retrieved. Seems not very useful in practice, except as some kind of disposable thing during an attack for redirection or distraction.
- throwaway09223 4y ago
  A drone would be far less detectable than the sub itself when not pinging (the drone would have only electronics, no nuclear turbine), so that seems like a non-issue regarding detecting the drone while in silent running. Drones are a lot more quiet and harder to locate than nuclear subs. A programmed path wouldn't illustrate where the drone or sub will be in advance so that's also a non-issue. You only know where the ping came from, at the time the ping was sent. The drone could also simply surface and pick up new instructions from satellite. I assume we will soon be moving en masse to underwater drones for reasons far beyond what's discussed here.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Lol, operationally that doesn’t fit at all. There are of course ocean based drones already, but they tend to be for surveillance and data gathering in general - like detecting subs. Not so much for navigation.
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      Well it seems you're determined to dismiss any scenario. I won't try to convince you. But, I hope we do agree without question that it's possible, should we wish to do so.
      - lazide 4y ago
        Autonomous ocean going drones have been common place for decades. Fire and forget programmable torpedoes have been a thing for decades. What makes no sense is trying to link them in some operational/controllable/recallable way to submarines which are trying to remain covert, as the communication channels give away the submarine or require them to do risky behaviors like surface for satellite comms. So my point is, you’re not proposing anything novel where you seem to think you are, and where you think they are advantages are actually significant operational disadvantages based on actual submarine mission profiles.
        Schroedingersat 4y ago
        If you wanted to make this work, you could. Step 1. Have a thousand cheap solar (or buoyancy/wave) charged sonar drones spread over hundreds of miles. Step 2. Have a hundred silent listening drones spread over the same area. Sonar drones can tell anyone and everyone that they exist and where they are, and encrypt what they see to transmit over whatever channel. Listening drones learn what the sonar drones saw by whatever means (satellite, VLF radio, etc). One of them gets close enough to the sub to tell it. The others all whisper into the void somewhere. Or the sub just listens directly if it's close enough. There's probably some better way of the sub learning what's around it that's top secret though

lazide 4y ago

A mile is far, far too close then. A square mile of ocean is a VERY small search place compared to what they would start with. And how would the drone know to 'flash the flashlight' where it was useful to the sub without the sub somehow communicating to the drone? Which would require the sub to emit something, or preprogram it before release. Not to mention, unless the sub stayed in one place or somehow communicated with the drone, it would have to stay in one place to have any chance to recover it. Even then, odds of finding the hidden black spot on it’s own with inertial guidance aren’t great if it’s away for long. If it was programmed into the drone when it was launched, just the drone coming to and from the sub would draw a giant red line to and from the sub. It would also severely restrict the sub - it either has to program in a path, in which case the drone will illustrate where the sub WILL BE shortly, or it has to do a one-off, in which case anyone could listen to/follow the drone back to the sub when it's retrieved. Seems not very useful in practice, except as some kind of disposable thing during an attack for redirection or distraction.

throwaway09223 4y ago
A drone would be far less detectable than the sub itself when not pinging (the drone would have only electronics, no nuclear turbine), so that seems like a non-issue regarding detecting the drone while in silent running. Drones are a lot more quiet and harder to locate than nuclear subs. A programmed path wouldn't illustrate where the drone or sub will be in advance so that's also a non-issue. You only know where the ping came from, at the time the ping was sent. The drone could also simply surface and pick up new instructions from satellite. I assume we will soon be moving en masse to underwater drones for reasons far beyond what's discussed here.
- lazide 4y ago
  Lol, operationally that doesn’t fit at all. There are of course ocean based drones already, but they tend to be for surveillance and data gathering in general - like detecting subs. Not so much for navigation.
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    Well it seems you're determined to dismiss any scenario. I won't try to convince you. But, I hope we do agree without question that it's possible, should we wish to do so.
    - lazide 4y ago
      Autonomous ocean going drones have been common place for decades. Fire and forget programmable torpedoes have been a thing for decades. What makes no sense is trying to link them in some operational/controllable/recallable way to submarines which are trying to remain covert, as the communication channels give away the submarine or require them to do risky behaviors like surface for satellite comms. So my point is, you’re not proposing anything novel where you seem to think you are, and where you think they are advantages are actually significant operational disadvantages based on actual submarine mission profiles.
      - Schroedingersat 4y ago
        If you wanted to make this work, you could. Step 1. Have a thousand cheap solar (or buoyancy/wave) charged sonar drones spread over hundreds of miles. Step 2. Have a hundred silent listening drones spread over the same area. Sonar drones can tell anyone and everyone that they exist and where they are, and encrypt what they see to transmit over whatever channel. Listening drones learn what the sonar drones saw by whatever means (satellite, VLF radio, etc). One of them gets close enough to the sub to tell it. The others all whisper into the void somewhere. Or the sub just listens directly if it's close enough. There's probably some better way of the sub learning what's around it that's top secret though