4 ms·

I didn't know "motion sickness" needed a new catchy name, but here we are. That said, yeah, there's gonna be a motion sick crowd, it's gonna be notably large,

I didn't know "motion sickness" needed a new catchy name, but here we are. That said, yeah, there's gonna be a motion sick crowd, it's gonna be notably large, and membership at the moment is effectively random (having done a sport with seasickness, sailing, you'd be surprised who is susceptible to motion sickness despite doing the thing _all the time_). VR is gonna be a tough sell to the masses until this is sorted out more, is my rather non-informed opinion. Complete physical disorientation isn't something that happens often day-to-day.

deleted 4y ago
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moron4hire 4y ago
This is the first time I'm hearing the term "cybersickness". For the last 8 years I've been in this field, everyone has called out "simulator sickness".
- rippercushions 4y ago
  Perhaps we can start calling it metasickness, or meta for short.
ghaff 4y ago
To the degree that VR inherently has a significant motion sick crowd that would seem to rule it out for any sort of routine business or educational use.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  The motion sickness happens when moving around in VR without physically moving. In a business scenario you can work around this. There's no need to walk around too much an he teleporting works as a good alternative.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Possibly. To be honest, I'm pretty skeptical of most business uses for VR outside of maybe some training, the ability to walk through designs, etc. I have trouble seeing it for collaboration/meetings in most cases. In a lot of situations I don't really want immersion.
    - philjohn 4y ago
      Meanwhile, I prefer meetings in VR than via Zoom as it's much less fatiguing.
      - throwaway4aday 4y ago
        Seconded, hours long zoom meetings make me want to quit tech and become a woodworker. Social VR is the next best thing to being there in person.
        GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Indeed, I've run some (decently sized) trials with Spatial and Arthur at my workplace (They're third party VR meeting programs) and I've been really impressed. Yes, the characters are cartoony, though they both have a way to make a pretty decent avatar from a mugshot (not cartoony - it's photobased but pretty lowres, pretty nice though considered it's based on only 1 photo). But having an actual meeting in VR the cartoonism fades away quickly as you start actually collaborating. Being able to see people move and point helps a lot, and if you're speaking about manufactured products you can show them in 3D, move them around etc. After 2 hours taking the headset off it feels weird suddenly finding myself at home. It really feels like I was somewhere else with others. This feeling is hard to convey to someone who has never tried it. All they see is a picture with some cartoony characters. I really think this tech will be instrumental in improving interaction in online meetings, and also reducing reliance on intercontinental travel for real meetings (which really needs to happen for climate reasons). It doesn't feel as exhausting as a Teams meeting where you just have a mosaic of bored faces that nobody actually looks at. And that's with the tech in this state of infancy. It's pretty promising already as it is. I'm not surprised Meta but also Microsoft are betting on this.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
> having done a sport with seasickness, sailing, you'd be surprised who is susceptible to motion sickness despite doing the thing _all the time_ > VR is gonna be a tough sell to the masses until this is sorted out more, is my rather non-informed opinion. Complete physical disorientation isn't something that happens often day-to-day. You're contradicting yourself. Clearly having a small measure of discomfort is not enough to dissuade people from using the technology. Otherwise they'd never have continued sailing.
mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
> VR is gonna be a tough sell to the masses I think this is the major factor of why this will be a business failure for Meta. Failure in the sense that this product is not for the masses like a social media "product". 3D TV's were supposed to be the next big thing and never took off. People don't like wearing this type of thing on their head for long periods of time. Then there are huge numbers of people that will get motion sickness, feel disoriented, have vision issues and other physical reasons they won't want to or can't use VR. Maybe its a generational thing? Okay, is the business plan then to wait 20 years? If this VR product and push doesn't get across the early adopter chasm [0] in the next 1-2 years its not going to happen for mainstream. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  I wouldn't put money on it being a failure. Meta seems to have figured out that a large potential market for VR is essentially the experience of just being in a room with other people. They are keeping their consumer gaming device around but with the Quest Pro it looks like they are putting their money into devices made specifically for business. I'd say it hinges more on their ability to deliver flawless multi-user interaction that can scale to accommodate dozens or even hundreds of simultaneous users in the same room. That is hard to do, but not impossible.
  - mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
    Technically sounds like an interesting problem. Is having 100 people in a virtual room a problem businesses are willing to pay $150k for? Usually any business meeting over 20 people is just 1 person doing a monologue thru slides. I don't understand how VR would add anything that enables a better business outcome than current business meeting technology. A VR world with a business culture of "presence equals you're working" would be horrible. It would be cheaper to talk with Epic and have them create a private Fortnite match assuming proximity audio can be done (remove the gaming shooting physics part of network traffic and I bet audio would be good enough). Let employees outfit their avatars with a bunch of business related "skins" and let them create meeting spaces using the existing fortnite build system. If you remove the shooter/death/gaming aspects and put in some lightweight meeting types of things like virtual whiteboards you accomplish the same goal - 100 people in a "meeting space".

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

moron4hire 4y ago

This is the first time I'm hearing the term "cybersickness". For the last 8 years I've been in this field, everyone has called out "simulator sickness".

rippercushions 4y ago
Perhaps we can start calling it metasickness, or meta for short.

ghaff 4y ago

To the degree that VR inherently has a significant motion sick crowd that would seem to rule it out for any sort of routine business or educational use.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
The motion sickness happens when moving around in VR without physically moving. In a business scenario you can work around this. There's no need to walk around too much an he teleporting works as a good alternative.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Possibly. To be honest, I'm pretty skeptical of most business uses for VR outside of maybe some training, the ability to walk through designs, etc. I have trouble seeing it for collaboration/meetings in most cases. In a lot of situations I don't really want immersion.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    Meanwhile, I prefer meetings in VR than via Zoom as it's much less fatiguing.
    - throwaway4aday 4y ago
      Seconded, hours long zoom meetings make me want to quit tech and become a woodworker. Social VR is the next best thing to being there in person.
      - GekkePrutser 4y ago
        Indeed, I've run some (decently sized) trials with Spatial and Arthur at my workplace (They're third party VR meeting programs) and I've been really impressed. Yes, the characters are cartoony, though they both have a way to make a pretty decent avatar from a mugshot (not cartoony - it's photobased but pretty lowres, pretty nice though considered it's based on only 1 photo). But having an actual meeting in VR the cartoonism fades away quickly as you start actually collaborating. Being able to see people move and point helps a lot, and if you're speaking about manufactured products you can show them in 3D, move them around etc. After 2 hours taking the headset off it feels weird suddenly finding myself at home. It really feels like I was somewhere else with others. This feeling is hard to convey to someone who has never tried it. All they see is a picture with some cartoony characters. I really think this tech will be instrumental in improving interaction in online meetings, and also reducing reliance on intercontinental travel for real meetings (which really needs to happen for climate reasons). It doesn't feel as exhausting as a Teams meeting where you just have a mosaic of bored faces that nobody actually looks at. And that's with the tech in this state of infancy. It's pretty promising already as it is. I'm not surprised Meta but also Microsoft are betting on this.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

> having done a sport with seasickness, sailing, you'd be surprised who is susceptible to motion sickness despite doing the thing _all the time_ > VR is gonna be a tough sell to the masses until this is sorted out more, is my rather non-informed opinion. Complete physical disorientation isn't something that happens often day-to-day. You're contradicting yourself. Clearly having a small measure of discomfort is not enough to dissuade people from using the technology. Otherwise they'd never have continued sailing.

mattbrewsbytes 4y ago

> VR is gonna be a tough sell to the masses I think this is the major factor of why this will be a business failure for Meta. Failure in the sense that this product is not for the masses like a social media "product". 3D TV's were supposed to be the next big thing and never took off. People don't like wearing this type of thing on their head for long periods of time. Then there are huge numbers of people that will get motion sickness, feel disoriented, have vision issues and other physical reasons they won't want to or can't use VR. Maybe its a generational thing? Okay, is the business plan then to wait 20 years? If this VR product and push doesn't get across the early adopter chasm [0] in the next 1-2 years its not going to happen for mainstream. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm

throwaway4aday 4y ago
I wouldn't put money on it being a failure. Meta seems to have figured out that a large potential market for VR is essentially the experience of just being in a room with other people. They are keeping their consumer gaming device around but with the Quest Pro it looks like they are putting their money into devices made specifically for business. I'd say it hinges more on their ability to deliver flawless multi-user interaction that can scale to accommodate dozens or even hundreds of simultaneous users in the same room. That is hard to do, but not impossible.
- mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
  Technically sounds like an interesting problem. Is having 100 people in a virtual room a problem businesses are willing to pay $150k for? Usually any business meeting over 20 people is just 1 person doing a monologue thru slides. I don't understand how VR would add anything that enables a better business outcome than current business meeting technology. A VR world with a business culture of "presence equals you're working" would be horrible. It would be cheaper to talk with Epic and have them create a private Fortnite match assuming proximity audio can be done (remove the gaming shooting physics part of network traffic and I bet audio would be good enough). Let employees outfit their avatars with a bunch of business related "skins" and let them create meeting spaces using the existing fortnite build system. If you remove the shooter/death/gaming aspects and put in some lightweight meeting types of things like virtual whiteboards you accomplish the same goal - 100 people in a "meeting space".