5 ms·

I lived in a ranch-style home in California. Literally added a new breaker, ran 30’ of Romex rated for 50A, and wired up an EV charger in about 2-3 hours. It’s

I lived in a ranch-style home in California. Literally added a new breaker, ran 30’ of Romex rated for 50A, and wired up an EV charger in about 2-3 hours. It’s not rocket science. Now, obviously some panels don’t have the space, or the service to the house isn’t enough amps but if that’s a case why aren’t you upgrading a 50 year-old electrical panel anyway? It sounds like OP had a bunch of deferred electrical maintenance to begin with but wants to blame it on EVs.

breput 4y ago
You're not wrong, and I have wired my own 60A circuit, but it is not trivial either and it is right at the edge of the above-average DIY capability to do it safely.
oliwarner 4y ago
> It’s not rocket science And an earth rod, right? Anyone can stick a breaker in, run some cable, but it takes the rocket scientists to consider neutral fault conditions, causing potential between your home, charger, car and literal earth. It might not apply to you. Your charger might have built in protection (many don't) or your supply might be grounded to the literal earth… but this is why we have building regs and people to follow them. Even if you do the work, it's worth a chat with a qualified electrician, and to have them inspect your work. It could save your life.
- LinuxBender 4y ago
  If they ran the standard 4 wire cable one of the wires will be a grounding wire that goes back to the panel. The panel should already have an earth ground and grounding rod(s). Adding a second grounding rod anywhere else would violate code in most states and potentially create a grounding loop and fire hazard. To correctly add more grounding rods in multiple locations would require a common ground bus where all grounding rods are inter-connected to an oversized grounding bus cable or bus bar that is independent of the circuit panel wiring. This is rare to find in a home however. This is more common in industrial buildings that have high power and high voltage equipment. In this setup every grounding rod has to be independently tested with a megger prior to being connected to the bus.
  - amluto 4y ago
    > Adding a second grounding rod anywhere else would violate code in most states and potentially create a grounding loop and fire hazard. Can you cite the relevant portion of the code? Or, for that matter, can you explain why exactly a ground loop is a fire hazard? If this was a hazard, then buildings would burn down when a grounded metallic conduit was buried underground (perfectly legal and very common, although dubiously wise if the conduit is galvanized steel), when anything conductive and connected to building ground (an outdoor appliance, a person touching a switch, etc) touched the ground, or in any building with an associated ordinary in ground swimming pool (which is extensively bonded and generally grounded at the pool equipment pad). Now you do need to avoid connecting neutral to ground in more than one place if you are a modern NEC-following project or a utility in California, for quite good reasons, but those reasons aren’t a “ground loop” or really a fire hazard — it’s because intentionally running current through a circuit that parallels a path through ground will make a fraction of that current flow through the ground, with potentially unfortunate consequences.
    - dpifke 4y ago
      Multiple grounding rods (electrodes) are permitted by § 250.52, but they have to be bonded together and kept away from other (non-bonded) grounding systems: Electrode Spacing. Where more than one of the electrodes of the type specified in 250.52(A)(5) or (A)(7) are used, each electrode of one grounding system (including that used for strike termination devices) shall not be less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from any other electrode of another grounding system. Two or more grounding electrodes that are bonded together shall be considered a single grounding electrode system. http://thenecwiki.com/2021/02/article-250/ http://thenecwiki.com/2021/02/article-250/ That said, it would be very strange to add another grounding rod just because you added another breaker or outlet—I can't think of any circumstance where that would be required, unless the existing service entrance was not properly grounded, in which case you have bigger problems.
      - amluto 4y ago
        That section AIUI is about “grounding electrodes” that are intended for use as part of the required main ground. NEC 250.54 says you may install an auxiliary grounding electrode if you are so inclined without following all those rules. Other sections of the NEC explicitly allow burying things like rigid metallic conduit underground, which is a lot like a grounding rod attached to a branch circuit or feeder.
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  You don’t need a ground rod for an EV charger, the service is already grounded and bonded and the EV wiring will have a grounding conductor.
albrewer 4y ago
If you don't own or didn't use a torque wrench to tighten the connections and this was awhile ago, I would go and re-torque them. Properly connecting these types of connections requires more technique than "give it five ugga duggas and it'll never move." Not saying that's what you did, but still, re-check :)
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  How many electricians do you see using a torque wrench?
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    It's code to do so as of NEC 2017.
    - Kirby64 4y ago
      Only if the outlet provides torque specs with its instructions. If there's no specification, torquing isn't required. Stupid 'workaround', but most outlets likely do not have torque requirements.
      - bdcravens 4y ago
        Correct, though when I put the 240 in my garage, both the outlet and breaker had torque specs.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  When I put my plug in, I did this. Torque screwdrivers are $30 on Amazon (hint: look for the ones that are used for firearms)

breput 4y ago

You're not wrong, and I have wired my own 60A circuit, but it is not trivial either and it is right at the edge of the above-average DIY capability to do it safely.

oliwarner 4y ago

> It’s not rocket science And an earth rod, right? Anyone can stick a breaker in, run some cable, but it takes the rocket scientists to consider neutral fault conditions, causing potential between your home, charger, car and literal earth. It might not apply to you. Your charger might have built in protection (many don't) or your supply might be grounded to the literal earth… but this is why we have building regs and people to follow them. Even if you do the work, it's worth a chat with a qualified electrician, and to have them inspect your work. It could save your life.

LinuxBender 4y ago
If they ran the standard 4 wire cable one of the wires will be a grounding wire that goes back to the panel. The panel should already have an earth ground and grounding rod(s). Adding a second grounding rod anywhere else would violate code in most states and potentially create a grounding loop and fire hazard. To correctly add more grounding rods in multiple locations would require a common ground bus where all grounding rods are inter-connected to an oversized grounding bus cable or bus bar that is independent of the circuit panel wiring. This is rare to find in a home however. This is more common in industrial buildings that have high power and high voltage equipment. In this setup every grounding rod has to be independently tested with a megger prior to being connected to the bus.
- amluto 4y ago
  > Adding a second grounding rod anywhere else would violate code in most states and potentially create a grounding loop and fire hazard. Can you cite the relevant portion of the code? Or, for that matter, can you explain why exactly a ground loop is a fire hazard? If this was a hazard, then buildings would burn down when a grounded metallic conduit was buried underground (perfectly legal and very common, although dubiously wise if the conduit is galvanized steel), when anything conductive and connected to building ground (an outdoor appliance, a person touching a switch, etc) touched the ground, or in any building with an associated ordinary in ground swimming pool (which is extensively bonded and generally grounded at the pool equipment pad). Now you do need to avoid connecting neutral to ground in more than one place if you are a modern NEC-following project or a utility in California, for quite good reasons, but those reasons aren’t a “ground loop” or really a fire hazard — it’s because intentionally running current through a circuit that parallels a path through ground will make a fraction of that current flow through the ground, with potentially unfortunate consequences.
  - dpifke 4y ago
    Multiple grounding rods (electrodes) are permitted by § 250.52, but they have to be bonded together and kept away from other (non-bonded) grounding systems: Electrode Spacing. Where more than one of the electrodes of the type specified in 250.52(A)(5) or (A)(7) are used, each electrode of one grounding system (including that used for strike termination devices) shall not be less than 1.83 m (6 ft) from any other electrode of another grounding system. Two or more grounding electrodes that are bonded together shall be considered a single grounding electrode system. http://thenecwiki.com/2021/02/article-250/ http://thenecwiki.com/2021/02/article-250/ That said, it would be very strange to add another grounding rod just because you added another breaker or outlet—I can't think of any circumstance where that would be required, unless the existing service entrance was not properly grounded, in which case you have bigger problems.
    - amluto 4y ago
      That section AIUI is about “grounding electrodes” that are intended for use as part of the required main ground. NEC 250.54 says you may install an auxiliary grounding electrode if you are so inclined without following all those rules. Other sections of the NEC explicitly allow burying things like rigid metallic conduit underground, which is a lot like a grounding rod attached to a branch circuit or feeder.
quickthrowman 4y ago
You don’t need a ground rod for an EV charger, the service is already grounded and bonded and the EV wiring will have a grounding conductor.

albrewer 4y ago

If you don't own or didn't use a torque wrench to tighten the connections and this was awhile ago, I would go and re-torque them. Properly connecting these types of connections requires more technique than "give it five ugga duggas and it'll never move." Not saying that's what you did, but still, re-check :)

dsfyu404ed 4y ago
How many electricians do you see using a torque wrench?
- bdcravens 4y ago
  It's code to do so as of NEC 2017.
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    Only if the outlet provides torque specs with its instructions. If there's no specification, torquing isn't required. Stupid 'workaround', but most outlets likely do not have torque requirements.
    - bdcravens 4y ago
      Correct, though when I put the 240 in my garage, both the outlet and breaker had torque specs.
bdcravens 4y ago
When I put my plug in, I did this. Torque screwdrivers are $30 on Amazon (hint: look for the ones that are used for firearms)