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Wow, watching that news clip reminds me about why I never watch the news. So much bias and unneeded anger. There's no explanation as to why the canon ball misse

Wow, watching that news clip reminds me about why I never watch the news. So much bias and unneeded anger. There's no explanation as to why the canon ball missed. There's also no mention of the fact that: a) the had firing experts on hand b) the fire/police departments were notified ahead of time and probably had someone on site. They also probably had veto power and input on how it was staged. (* I don't know this for a fact. I'm basing this on every other Mythbusters episode I've ever seen) My favorite line: "his elderly mother thought the sky was falling." Makes her sound like a simple nutcase. The son then says, "Yeah, she thought it might be a tree falling on the house or a meteorite." A few months ago my brother and some friends went on an epic multiday hike. The previous year, someone attempted it and was never seen again. They were all experienced and were very prepared. In the end they found themselves in a situation where they had to have search and rescue pull them out -- going forward or back wasn't an option. They had a locator beacon (part of being prepared) and decided to pull it. The other option was to head back, miss their return date and have S&R come looking for them anyway. The local news portrayed them as inexperienced idiots who were totally unprepared. They misinterpreted or manipulated quotes. They didn't actually understand anything -- just regurgitated facts with their uneducated and biased tones and extrapolations. In conclusion, TV news should be ended in all forms. Reporters aren't experts in the subject matter they report. Even though they should be trained to know better, modern news programs make no effort to disguise their bias.

endersshadow 15y ago
I think you're confusing "bias" with "sensationalism." TV journalists (especially of the local variety) look to sensationalize every piece of news that they can. This is due to a whole host of factors--not the least being plummeting local news ratings. But most importantly, I want to touch on the following point: "Reporters aren't experts in the subject matter they report." Of course they're not! Journalism itself is not something that everybody can do. The problem you're citing is not because journalists aren't experts in whatever they're reporting (which is a ludicrous notion--news spans so many different subject areas that it would be nigh impossible to house an expert reporter on every subject). The problem is driven by falling ratings and a need for more gripping and sensational stories. Years ago, Ellen DeGeneres even had the joke that she was eating dinner and the local news came on to say, "What you're eating right now can kill you. Film at eleven."
- lukejduncan 15y ago
  > Journalism itself is not something that everybody can do. I think the Internet has shown otherwise
  - ja2ke 15y ago
    I hope that was sarcasm. The Internet has shown that people don't have to work in a newsroom to be a journalist, but it's also highlighted the fact that being a journalist of any note or quality requires the same combination of skill and training and work of any profession. It's really really easy to suck at it, but it's an intangible enough thing that a lot of people don't realize a) that it's something you can suck at, b) that they might suck at it.
    - cscheid 15y ago
      I think your argument misses the point. The main advantage of the internet is that the marginal cost of a better report(er) is essentially zero. The marginal cost of a TV second is huge. So detailed reporting material gets pushed out of the market for TV seconds by sensationalist crap. On the internet, you have the chance to look for the better material. On TV, the circumstances behind the business model drive it to CNN headline news quality.
      - billybob 15y ago
        Far be it from me to defend TV news - my print journalism professors used to love to point out now there's more info on the front page of a newspaper than in an hour of TV, and you can scan to the parts that interest you. TV news is 99% garbage in my view. That said, the internet also has a high noise-to-signal ratio. Yes, searching helps, but there is a type of in-depth reporting that you simply can't do unless it's your full-time job and you're able to travel when necessary. That's the value that news organizations can provide. A random blogger who happens to be talented and financially independent could do great reporting. One who only has a few hours a week and no budget to devote to the task is severely hindered.
      - 15y ago
kbutler 15y ago
> In conclusion, TV news should be ended in all forms. Wow. I agree there's a lot of misinformation and poor reporting on TV news, but that's like saying the Internet should be ended because of the poor quality of slashdot comments.
- TeMPOraL 15y ago
  > In conclusion, TV news should be ended in all forms. Even though it sounds a bit broad, I'll second the idea behind it as I understand it. > Wow. I agree there's a lot of misinformation and poor reporting on TV news, but that's like saying the Internet should be ended because of the poor quality of slashdot comments. There's too many misinformation and poor reporting on TV and no way to distinguish truth from falsehood. You wouldn't trust a person who verifiably lied to you 70% of the time. That's why you don't trust YouTube comments. It's a waste of brain resources to even try. The same thing happened with newspapers and major news station. Even most news from news sites that end up on HN get debunked in comments after few hours by people who actually know the domain. I personally don't know who to believe now - everyone on "popular news" seems to try either to steal attention, or to advertise something. And the truth suffers.
  - Zaak 15y ago
    I for one would be willing to pay a modest fee for news that was consistently accurate and relevant (ie, made sure to catch important developments that are typically ignored by other new sources). Any suggestions?
    - oostevo 15y ago
      Private intelligence?[1] They tend to put a much larger emphasis on delivering good information over writing an engaging story. They do focus almost entirely on geopolitical news, though. Stratfor and KGS both offer free access to a limited set of their analysis.[2,3] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_intelligence_agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_intelligence_agency [2] http://www.stratfor.com/ http://www.stratfor.com/ [3] http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch.aspx http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch.aspx
TheCapn 15y ago
I don't think you need to take it that far to say news should end. Personally if each person that was the subject of a news cast had the option to say whether it aired or not would be enough. It sort is along the lines that if the person wasn't made available for comment then they'd have no story at all. That way the person gets to say whether the information provided is factual or bias or an alternative.
monochromatic 15y ago
TV news is no better and no worse than other forms of journalism.
- wpietri 15y ago
  That seems unlikely. Relative to print, production cost of video is high, airtime is limited, the audience is less sharp and more fickle, and producers are much more profit-focused. It'd be miraculous if TV news managed to overcome those handicaps and get up to the level of print journalism.
  - willyt 15y ago
    It only works if its an independently funded public service broadcaster like the BBC. Generally, the BBC news is widely accepted in the UK to have more accurate reporting than the press. Especially compared to tabloid newspaper stories, which most people realise that you need to take with a strong pinch of salt.
  - monochromatic 15y ago
    Ok, maybe I phrased that a little too strongly. How about this: you can't count on print journalism not to be shockingly inaccurate, same as TV journalism.
- nitrogen 15y ago
  I'd say long-form investigative documentary essays and films that take months to years to produce are a significantly better form of journalism than TV news.
- artursapek 15y ago
  I disagree, the reporting is much more restricted and guided on TV what with all of the advertising partners and the push to be "family friendly."
- Symmetry 15y ago
  No, the longer the reporter has to make the story the better a job they'll do. So TV reporting, which is produced continuously, tends to be the works, followed by daily newspapers, followed by weekly magazines.
jsherry 15y ago
Dude a cannonball was fired within clear sight of a residential neighborhood. Regardless of what you thought of the news reporting quality, it's pretty indefensible, negligent behavior.
- tvon 15y ago
  It seems as if this happened at Camp Parks Military Firing Reservation, which they say is surrounded by foothills.
- jfoutz 15y ago
  No, it's a military firing range. actually went over the hills. looks like a pretty big open area. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=camp+parks+prfta&hl=en&ll=37.724734,-121.892967&spn=0.026612,0.049653&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=53.961216,101.689453&vpsrc=6&hq=camp+parks+prfta&t=h&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=camp+parks+prfta&hl=en&#38...
- onemoreact 15y ago
  From what I understand it hit a hill and bounced which is how it ended up trashing that area. While vary dangerous it was not traveling all that fast. Basically, an 80mph bullet is not that dangerous, but an 80 mph 100lb softball is.
cleaver 15y ago
That sounds like any contact I've had with TV news or newspapers from the inside. To be charitable, the way I'd put it is: they can only afford the time to write the story, but not enough time to really understand the story.
randall 15y ago
FWIW, I'm trying to fix this. Anyone else who's passionate about this, WebGL, Quartz Composer or other video graphics technology, get in touch with me.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
I am sure there was a fully trained crew on hand. The riff on TV news though, that goes a bit over the top. I talked with the guy who ran the KRON news division way back when it was relevant (we were at a fundraiser and making small talk) and I commented on the challenge of making TV news accurate. His response was that the pressure to 'be first' put negative pressure on 'be accurate' and likened it to software bugs in video games as I had mentioned I was a programmer. His take was that the speed to getting the story out was primary, vetted only by confirmation by one reliable or some number of unreliable and unrelated sources, but accuracy developed over the life of the story. Each update was a bit more accurate than the previous one. I suggested that seemed like it didn't serve the news consumer well, but he made the argument that they defined 'serving the consumer well' by measuring market share. I came away as a much more critical viewer of news from that conversation. That being said, Discovery is going to make bank when this episode is on TV. If I know how a lot of people are with respect to TV (and my experience is from being on Battlebots) then they send a film crew out to video the damage with a waiver that says "sign away any future claim against discovery and we'll pay to fix your house and PUT YOU ON TV!" and they will totally go for it. Maybe Jamie coming by and doing his "over the top amazed" kind of thing looking at the hole etc etc and talking with the 'regular' folks. It will be a highly rated show and draw lots of viewers. They will make some public service announcement about not trying this stuff in what is left of your home, and everyone will be happy. The folks with a hole in their house and car will have their 15 minutes of fame, the show will get a big ratings boost (look for the episode to air during sweeps week) and become another story for the mythbusters crew.
- evan_ 15y ago
  You're over-estimating Discovery. They could've done the same thing when an explosion with a low cloud cover caused a bunch of window damage to a nearby town and they didn't even mention it until a "behind the scenes" special a few years later.
  - cstejerean 15y ago
    I suspect though that an explosion blowing a few windows is lot less interesting than a cannonball bouncing through a house. I at least would be interested in seeing the damage a cannonball can cause.
grecy 15y ago
> They were all experienced and were very prepared. In the end they found themselves in a situation where they had to have search and rescue pull them out -- going forward or back wasn't an option. As a very experienced and avid hiker myself, I'm extremely curious about this. Can you provide more details? Did anyone that was on-site blog about it? Injury is the only thing I can think of... Thanks
tlrobinson 15y ago
TV news has more in common with entertainment than journalism. You could probably get the same amount of content from reading news story summaries for 5 minutes as you get from an hour of local TV news.
- wanorris 15y ago
  And depending on where you got your summaries from, the accuracy would likely be much, much higher.
tlb 15y ago
Yes, daily TV news is crap and it's awful that it influences so many people. But take comfort in the fact that tomorrow, TV news will have new happenings to blabber about, and yesterday's crap will be forgotten. People who care will read the full story weeks later and get something resembling truth.
- YmMot 15y ago
  That's true, but the part of the reason that it's a big problem that various news sources are so slap dash is the way the human brain works. Once a person has read a news story, it's more difficult to displace those "facts". People generally believe the first story they read, even if they read a correction later. Even if you are aware of this type of cognitive bias it still occurs. Obviously it can be overcome but it's much better to try and get the most accurate version first. When combined with other biases, this is why polls routinely show many people still believe some story that was reported even after it has been widely discredited.
tlrobinson 15y ago
This coverage isn't quite as bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-CErr0VOY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-CErr0VOY
cookiecaper 15y ago
It's not the fault of TV news. Like so many other things, the blame goes all the way upstream to the anonymous mass of idiots that comprise humanity (for almost all values). TV news is meeting the demands made by its market, which doesn't absolve their responsibility for participating, but also doesn't really make it worth much to "end TV news in all forms". We have to teach the people how to do good and not evil. If any of you know how to do this, please get back to me.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
artursapek 15y ago
I stopped watching the news years ago. TV news channels have unfortunately become corrupted by the tight competition for viewership, and they are willing to do shameful, pathetic things to get a story that will help them get their ratings up. What they do isn't reporting anymore. It's entertaining.
vl 15y ago
While your final sentiment is overly strong, there could be good TV news, and this particular bit didn't come out as overly critical or judgmental to me, phrases like "before spiraling back toward Dublin like a cruise missile" and "and bounced around like a pinball" don't help to convey the story accurately.
hmottestad 15y ago
Reminds me of the BBC's "How to make a news broadcast": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGSXMuWMR4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGSXMuWMR4
adient 15y ago
You don't live in reality. Or at least your reality is not that of the average person.
andrewfelix 15y ago
Reminds me of the Human Giant TV News sketch... http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8a81dd6b88/human-giant-montana-meth-from-human-giant http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8a81dd6b88/human-giant-mont...
projectileboy 15y ago
At least in the U.S., TV news isn't intended to inform; it's intended to sell advertising, and juicier stories sell more advertising. Expecting news from TV "news" (at either the local or national level) is like expecting news from Dancing with the Stars.
itmag 15y ago
Startup idea: web-based news TV channel with experts reporting on stuff (with votes).

endersshadow 15y ago

I think you're confusing "bias" with "sensationalism." TV journalists (especially of the local variety) look to sensationalize every piece of news that they can. This is due to a whole host of factors--not the least being plummeting local news ratings. But most importantly, I want to touch on the following point: "Reporters aren't experts in the subject matter they report." Of course they're not! Journalism itself is not something that everybody can do. The problem you're citing is not because journalists aren't experts in whatever they're reporting (which is a ludicrous notion--news spans so many different subject areas that it would be nigh impossible to house an expert reporter on every subject). The problem is driven by falling ratings and a need for more gripping and sensational stories. Years ago, Ellen DeGeneres even had the joke that she was eating dinner and the local news came on to say, "What you're eating right now can kill you. Film at eleven."

lukejduncan 15y ago
> Journalism itself is not something that everybody can do. I think the Internet has shown otherwise
- ja2ke 15y ago
  I hope that was sarcasm. The Internet has shown that people don't have to work in a newsroom to be a journalist, but it's also highlighted the fact that being a journalist of any note or quality requires the same combination of skill and training and work of any profession. It's really really easy to suck at it, but it's an intangible enough thing that a lot of people don't realize a) that it's something you can suck at, b) that they might suck at it.
  - cscheid 15y ago
    I think your argument misses the point. The main advantage of the internet is that the marginal cost of a better report(er) is essentially zero. The marginal cost of a TV second is huge. So detailed reporting material gets pushed out of the market for TV seconds by sensationalist crap. On the internet, you have the chance to look for the better material. On TV, the circumstances behind the business model drive it to CNN headline news quality.
    - billybob 15y ago
      Far be it from me to defend TV news - my print journalism professors used to love to point out now there's more info on the front page of a newspaper than in an hour of TV, and you can scan to the parts that interest you. TV news is 99% garbage in my view. That said, the internet also has a high noise-to-signal ratio. Yes, searching helps, but there is a type of in-depth reporting that you simply can't do unless it's your full-time job and you're able to travel when necessary. That's the value that news organizations can provide. A random blogger who happens to be talented and financially independent could do great reporting. One who only has a few hours a week and no budget to devote to the task is severely hindered.
    - 15y ago

kbutler 15y ago

> In conclusion, TV news should be ended in all forms. Wow. I agree there's a lot of misinformation and poor reporting on TV news, but that's like saying the Internet should be ended because of the poor quality of slashdot comments.

TeMPOraL 15y ago
> In conclusion, TV news should be ended in all forms. Even though it sounds a bit broad, I'll second the idea behind it as I understand it. > Wow. I agree there's a lot of misinformation and poor reporting on TV news, but that's like saying the Internet should be ended because of the poor quality of slashdot comments. There's too many misinformation and poor reporting on TV and no way to distinguish truth from falsehood. You wouldn't trust a person who verifiably lied to you 70% of the time. That's why you don't trust YouTube comments. It's a waste of brain resources to even try. The same thing happened with newspapers and major news station. Even most news from news sites that end up on HN get debunked in comments after few hours by people who actually know the domain. I personally don't know who to believe now - everyone on "popular news" seems to try either to steal attention, or to advertise something. And the truth suffers.
- Zaak 15y ago
  I for one would be willing to pay a modest fee for news that was consistently accurate and relevant (ie, made sure to catch important developments that are typically ignored by other new sources). Any suggestions?
  - oostevo 15y ago
    Private intelligence?[1] They tend to put a much larger emphasis on delivering good information over writing an engaging story. They do focus almost entirely on geopolitical news, though. Stratfor and KGS both offer free access to a limited set of their analysis.[2,3] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_intelligence_agency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_intelligence_agency [2] http://www.stratfor.com/ http://www.stratfor.com/ [3] http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch.aspx http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch.aspx

TheCapn 15y ago

I don't think you need to take it that far to say news should end. Personally if each person that was the subject of a news cast had the option to say whether it aired or not would be enough. It sort is along the lines that if the person wasn't made available for comment then they'd have no story at all. That way the person gets to say whether the information provided is factual or bias or an alternative.

monochromatic 15y ago

TV news is no better and no worse than other forms of journalism.

wpietri 15y ago
That seems unlikely. Relative to print, production cost of video is high, airtime is limited, the audience is less sharp and more fickle, and producers are much more profit-focused. It'd be miraculous if TV news managed to overcome those handicaps and get up to the level of print journalism.
- willyt 15y ago
  It only works if its an independently funded public service broadcaster like the BBC. Generally, the BBC news is widely accepted in the UK to have more accurate reporting than the press. Especially compared to tabloid newspaper stories, which most people realise that you need to take with a strong pinch of salt.
- monochromatic 15y ago
  Ok, maybe I phrased that a little too strongly. How about this: you can't count on print journalism not to be shockingly inaccurate, same as TV journalism.
nitrogen 15y ago
I'd say long-form investigative documentary essays and films that take months to years to produce are a significantly better form of journalism than TV news.
artursapek 15y ago
I disagree, the reporting is much more restricted and guided on TV what with all of the advertising partners and the push to be "family friendly."
Symmetry 15y ago
No, the longer the reporter has to make the story the better a job they'll do. So TV reporting, which is produced continuously, tends to be the works, followed by daily newspapers, followed by weekly magazines.

jsherry 15y ago

Dude a cannonball was fired within clear sight of a residential neighborhood. Regardless of what you thought of the news reporting quality, it's pretty indefensible, negligent behavior.

tvon 15y ago
It seems as if this happened at Camp Parks Military Firing Reservation, which they say is surrounded by foothills.
jfoutz 15y ago
No, it's a military firing range. actually went over the hills. looks like a pretty big open area. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=camp+parks+prfta&hl=en&ll=37.724734,-121.892967&spn=0.026612,0.049653&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=53.961216,101.689453&vpsrc=6&hq=camp+parks+prfta&t=h&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=camp+parks+prfta&hl=en&#38...
onemoreact 15y ago
From what I understand it hit a hill and bounced which is how it ended up trashing that area. While vary dangerous it was not traveling all that fast. Basically, an 80mph bullet is not that dangerous, but an 80 mph 100lb softball is.

cleaver 15y ago

That sounds like any contact I've had with TV news or newspapers from the inside. To be charitable, the way I'd put it is: they can only afford the time to write the story, but not enough time to really understand the story.

randall 15y ago

FWIW, I'm trying to fix this. Anyone else who's passionate about this, WebGL, Quartz Composer or other video graphics technology, get in touch with me.

ChuckMcM 15y ago

I am sure there was a fully trained crew on hand. The riff on TV news though, that goes a bit over the top. I talked with the guy who ran the KRON news division way back when it was relevant (we were at a fundraiser and making small talk) and I commented on the challenge of making TV news accurate. His response was that the pressure to 'be first' put negative pressure on 'be accurate' and likened it to software bugs in video games as I had mentioned I was a programmer. His take was that the speed to getting the story out was primary, vetted only by confirmation by one reliable or some number of unreliable and unrelated sources, but accuracy developed over the life of the story. Each update was a bit more accurate than the previous one. I suggested that seemed like it didn't serve the news consumer well, but he made the argument that they defined 'serving the consumer well' by measuring market share. I came away as a much more critical viewer of news from that conversation. That being said, Discovery is going to make bank when this episode is on TV. If I know how a lot of people are with respect to TV (and my experience is from being on Battlebots) then they send a film crew out to video the damage with a waiver that says "sign away any future claim against discovery and we'll pay to fix your house and PUT YOU ON TV!" and they will totally go for it. Maybe Jamie coming by and doing his "over the top amazed" kind of thing looking at the hole etc etc and talking with the 'regular' folks. It will be a highly rated show and draw lots of viewers. They will make some public service announcement about not trying this stuff in what is left of your home, and everyone will be happy. The folks with a hole in their house and car will have their 15 minutes of fame, the show will get a big ratings boost (look for the episode to air during sweeps week) and become another story for the mythbusters crew.

evan_ 15y ago
You're over-estimating Discovery. They could've done the same thing when an explosion with a low cloud cover caused a bunch of window damage to a nearby town and they didn't even mention it until a "behind the scenes" special a few years later.
- cstejerean 15y ago
  I suspect though that an explosion blowing a few windows is lot less interesting than a cannonball bouncing through a house. I at least would be interested in seeing the damage a cannonball can cause.

grecy 15y ago

> They were all experienced and were very prepared. In the end they found themselves in a situation where they had to have search and rescue pull them out -- going forward or back wasn't an option. As a very experienced and avid hiker myself, I'm extremely curious about this. Can you provide more details? Did anyone that was on-site blog about it? Injury is the only thing I can think of... Thanks

tlrobinson 15y ago

TV news has more in common with entertainment than journalism. You could probably get the same amount of content from reading news story summaries for 5 minutes as you get from an hour of local TV news.

wanorris 15y ago
And depending on where you got your summaries from, the accuracy would likely be much, much higher.

tlb 15y ago

Yes, daily TV news is crap and it's awful that it influences so many people. But take comfort in the fact that tomorrow, TV news will have new happenings to blabber about, and yesterday's crap will be forgotten. People who care will read the full story weeks later and get something resembling truth.

YmMot 15y ago
That's true, but the part of the reason that it's a big problem that various news sources are so slap dash is the way the human brain works. Once a person has read a news story, it's more difficult to displace those "facts". People generally believe the first story they read, even if they read a correction later. Even if you are aware of this type of cognitive bias it still occurs. Obviously it can be overcome but it's much better to try and get the most accurate version first. When combined with other biases, this is why polls routinely show many people still believe some story that was reported even after it has been widely discredited.

tlrobinson 15y ago

This coverage isn't quite as bad: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-CErr0VOY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj-CErr0VOY

cookiecaper 15y ago

It's not the fault of TV news. Like so many other things, the blame goes all the way upstream to the anonymous mass of idiots that comprise humanity (for almost all values). TV news is meeting the demands made by its market, which doesn't absolve their responsibility for participating, but also doesn't really make it worth much to "end TV news in all forms". We have to teach the people how to do good and not evil. If any of you know how to do this, please get back to me.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

artursapek 15y ago

I stopped watching the news years ago. TV news channels have unfortunately become corrupted by the tight competition for viewership, and they are willing to do shameful, pathetic things to get a story that will help them get their ratings up. What they do isn't reporting anymore. It's entertaining.

vl 15y ago

While your final sentiment is overly strong, there could be good TV news, and this particular bit didn't come out as overly critical or judgmental to me, phrases like "before spiraling back toward Dublin like a cruise missile" and "and bounced around like a pinball" don't help to convey the story accurately.

hmottestad 15y ago

Reminds me of the BBC's "How to make a news broadcast": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGSXMuWMR4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGSXMuWMR4

adient 15y ago

You don't live in reality. Or at least your reality is not that of the average person.

andrewfelix 15y ago

Reminds me of the Human Giant TV News sketch... http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8a81dd6b88/human-giant-montana-meth-from-human-giant http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/8a81dd6b88/human-giant-mont...

projectileboy 15y ago

At least in the U.S., TV news isn't intended to inform; it's intended to sell advertising, and juicier stories sell more advertising. Expecting news from TV "news" (at either the local or national level) is like expecting news from Dancing with the Stars.

itmag 15y ago

Startup idea: web-based news TV channel with experts reporting on stuff (with votes).