4 ms·

I agree with you. It's getting harder and harder. Went to a restaurant Friday night with friends. Inside there are no menus, only QR cords and the UX is some of

I agree with you. It's getting harder and harder. Went to a restaurant Friday night with friends. Inside there are no menus, only QR cords and the UX is some of the worst ever (toastlab). There is also no way to pay except through the website which wants you to register an account. I don't want to be a dick to my friends but I also don't want to eat at this restaurant. The waiters said "put in fake info" and they acknowledged everyone complains about the menus. In the end my friends paid and I didn't have to bring up the issue.

lxgr 4y ago
I had a similar experience recently at one of my favorite restaurants. They do still have physical menus, but payment by default now works via scanning a QR code. This is especially frustrating, given that they only recently switched to a pretty cool POS handheld system that accepts contactless and allows tipping right at the touchscreen. But it seems pretty clear why they are doing that: Besides saving some time for the waitstaff, I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address… I wonder if I‘ll end up getting spam by either the restaurant or the POS vendor. It also creates a completely new and entirely avoidable problem: I don‘t have strong signal in that restaurant, and they don‘t offer a wi-fi either. All in all, while the waiter probably saved 20-30 seconds (waiting for me to unlock my phone or get my card from my wallet, tap it, and select my tipping option), it took me almost 5 minutes to complete payment on my side.
- bombcar 4y ago
  I suspect we’re going to see so many of these systems mothballed quite soon. I’ve noticed badly printed out menus at some of these places already.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  > I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address… I do not think the merchant gets a name or an email address. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/715893 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/715893
  - lxgr 4y ago
    They definitely do for in-app and web payments. Not sure about the name actually, but they do get the email address - that‘s how they were able to email me an invoice without me entering anything. That said, my my email address does contain my name, and while I could configure an alias in my Apple Pay settings, I doubt that too many people would do so. Would be a nice way for Apple to use their email privacy relay feature.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address This is not true
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Care to elaborate? Note that this is Apple Pay in-app/web, not tap to pay.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The parent comment was talking about in a restaurant > But it seems pretty clear why they are doing that: Besides saving some time for the waitstaff, I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address… In the case of a card not present transaction, the merchant always asks for your address when using credit cards. Also the original submission is about “cashless societies” and the disadvantage of it. No one is complaining about merchants refusing to take cash for web transactions.
      - lxgr 4y ago
        Yes, and I was adding to that comment, mentioning restaurants using QR codes not just for menus, but also for payments. This effectively makes restaurants using this system card-not-present merchants. > No one is complaining about merchants refusing to take cash for web transactions. Agreed, but why does a restaurant have to be a web merchant when there is a much more convenient alternative available?
        scarface74 4y ago
        I have never been to a restaurant that requires you to give them an address for card present transactions.
        lxgr 4y ago
        Me neither. I am talking about a card-not-present transaction at a restaurant. The checkout site did request my email address from Apple Pay, which obliges by default.
- b112 4y ago
  I don't even get this. * do they put up signs, and make sure not to let you in, if you don't have a phone?! * what if it just doesn't work with your phone. you ate, try to pay, doesn't work. * what if you have a phone, but no way to pay via phone, eg, no credit cards? I just don't get it Frankly, after eating, if presented with "you need a phone to pay", my response would be to ask, "so you refuse to take cash?". If they did... well, their problem. Not mine.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    You can of course pay via card or cash too, but the default experience is the waiter leaving the check with a QR code on your table, expecting you to pay by scanning it. I‘ve seen a variation of this (in the UK) where they really only bring a QR code, and you can‘t even read the amount without a phone. Presumably you have to ask for a printed check if you want to pay by cash or card, introducing another unnecessary step into the process. (Coincidentally they also initially brought me the wrong QR code since they are only labeled very discreetly, momentarily shocking me with a large group‘s check.)
    - b112 4y ago
      Well, that's just silly. The bill could have the full receipt, and a QR code easily enough. The only reason to make it an either/or, is to try to force it. I'd tip less, as a result too. Most places I worked at, has pooled tipping, meaning even the bus boy got some of the take. But regardless, if my food is cold, or tasteless, I tip less too. My tip is some for the waiter's service, some for everything else. And having to wait for a real receipt, and I presume eyerolling is part of it, would mean a lesser tip. If someone thinks that unfair, then I say the same to them, as to the waiter. Find a different job, where the employer cares about customer satisfaction.

lxgr 4y ago

I had a similar experience recently at one of my favorite restaurants. They do still have physical menus, but payment by default now works via scanning a QR code. This is especially frustrating, given that they only recently switched to a pretty cool POS handheld system that accepts contactless and allows tipping right at the touchscreen. But it seems pretty clear why they are doing that: Besides saving some time for the waitstaff, I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address… I wonder if I‘ll end up getting spam by either the restaurant or the POS vendor. It also creates a completely new and entirely avoidable problem: I don‘t have strong signal in that restaurant, and they don‘t offer a wi-fi either. All in all, while the waiter probably saved 20-30 seconds (waiting for me to unlock my phone or get my card from my wallet, tap it, and select my tipping option), it took me almost 5 minutes to complete payment on my side.

bombcar 4y ago
I suspect we’re going to see so many of these systems mothballed quite soon. I’ve noticed badly printed out menus at some of these places already.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
> I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address… I do not think the merchant gets a name or an email address. https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/715893 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/715893
- lxgr 4y ago
  They definitely do for in-app and web payments. Not sure about the name actually, but they do get the email address - that‘s how they were able to email me an invoice without me entering anything. That said, my my email address does contain my name, and while I could configure an alias in my Apple Pay settings, I doubt that too many people would do so. Would be a nice way for Apple to use their email privacy relay feature.
scarface74 4y ago
> I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address This is not true
- lxgr 4y ago
  Care to elaborate? Note that this is Apple Pay in-app/web, not tap to pay.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The parent comment was talking about in a restaurant > But it seems pretty clear why they are doing that: Besides saving some time for the waitstaff, I only now realized that by using Apple Pay, they get at least my name and email address… In the case of a card not present transaction, the merchant always asks for your address when using credit cards. Also the original submission is about “cashless societies” and the disadvantage of it. No one is complaining about merchants refusing to take cash for web transactions.
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Yes, and I was adding to that comment, mentioning restaurants using QR codes not just for menus, but also for payments. This effectively makes restaurants using this system card-not-present merchants. > No one is complaining about merchants refusing to take cash for web transactions. Agreed, but why does a restaurant have to be a web merchant when there is a much more convenient alternative available?
      - scarface74 4y ago
        I have never been to a restaurant that requires you to give them an address for card present transactions.
        lxgr 4y ago
        Me neither. I am talking about a card-not-present transaction at a restaurant. The checkout site did request my email address from Apple Pay, which obliges by default.
b112 4y ago
I don't even get this. * do they put up signs, and make sure not to let you in, if you don't have a phone?! * what if it just doesn't work with your phone. you ate, try to pay, doesn't work. * what if you have a phone, but no way to pay via phone, eg, no credit cards? I just don't get it Frankly, after eating, if presented with "you need a phone to pay", my response would be to ask, "so you refuse to take cash?". If they did... well, their problem. Not mine.
- lxgr 4y ago
  You can of course pay via card or cash too, but the default experience is the waiter leaving the check with a QR code on your table, expecting you to pay by scanning it. I‘ve seen a variation of this (in the UK) where they really only bring a QR code, and you can‘t even read the amount without a phone. Presumably you have to ask for a printed check if you want to pay by cash or card, introducing another unnecessary step into the process. (Coincidentally they also initially brought me the wrong QR code since they are only labeled very discreetly, momentarily shocking me with a large group‘s check.)
  - b112 4y ago
    Well, that's just silly. The bill could have the full receipt, and a QR code easily enough. The only reason to make it an either/or, is to try to force it. I'd tip less, as a result too. Most places I worked at, has pooled tipping, meaning even the bus boy got some of the take. But regardless, if my food is cold, or tasteless, I tip less too. My tip is some for the waiter's service, some for everything else. And having to wait for a real receipt, and I presume eyerolling is part of it, would mean a lesser tip. If someone thinks that unfair, then I say the same to them, as to the waiter. Find a different job, where the employer cares about customer satisfaction.