8 ms·

Advice for an older software developer looking for a change

17 points by rcarndrums 4y ago

My father is nearly 70. He works as a Cloud DevOps engineer for a large hospital. He seems really troubled with his current job, especially the fact that the people he work with don't value good engineering (my interpretation). He wants to move to a more tech/engineering driven company, but obviously with his age this is tough. He always talks about how he wants to move to a better job, but then says there's no point at his age. I do think he's a really competent engineer (I say this as, I think, a fairly competent software engineer myself, currently working at a major-ish tech company), and so I'd like to see him work somewhere he can thrive but worry it might be too late. Any advice on this? Edit: Don't mean to be cynical, but as a potential plus, he does look quite young for his age (I'd say a solid 10-15 years)

righttoolforjob 4y ago
What has he done in his career? It would be easier to help with a bit of history here. What did he enjoy the most? What did he feel he was best at? Why is he still working and not in retirement?
- leed25d 4y ago
  > Why is he still working and not in retirement? This should not be a question. It is none of your business.
  - righttoolforjob 4y ago
    How about letting the person asking the question take a stance on that instead of you being offended from the side-line? I think it might be a very important piece of information to figure out a strategy going forward.
    - leed25d 4y ago
      I am not offended, not by a long shot but I would be if someone asked me similar question.
- rcarndrums 4y ago
  He's passionate about engineering and has a lot of energy which is why he's still working and wants to continue. I think his focus is on identity, worked for a few years before this as a support engineer for an enterprise software company which ended up moving to a different state (he liked that job a lot more). But he's had a spotty work history, taking up engineering late in life and starting his own IT company which shut down ~15 years ago.
  - righttoolforjob 4y ago
    From what you've told so far, I think he should just simply look for another job. If it says DevOps, SAFe, Agile or something like that in the title or job description, then chances are the company has unfortunately been swindled by these snake oil salesmen and it will be hard to find time for good engineering. There can't really be a shortage for more support engineers if he likes that, but if he wants to do more core engineering then of course go for that. Most of the big enterprises should have room for him in many different departments and he might be comfortable and safe. As for concrete advice: Just go looking for jobs and weigh pros and cons. You can do it on his behalf and bring a few to him for discussion. Don't be pushy if he's not into the idea and just feels like complaining a bit. Sometimes all a person needs is a bit of acknowledgement and not a solution.
dylanhassinger 4y ago
Just like any age, apply to as many jobs as possible
gregjor 4y ago
I do a lot of cloud infrastructure and system admin, at 62. I freelance so no one cares about my age, only what I can deliver. I see lots of freelance opportunities for that work because many companies don't need full-time, can't afford, or can't find people.
- ensemblehq 4y ago
  I second this. Freelancing roles for cloud infrastructure (and even data infrastructure) might be a good fit because there is some degree of needing quality engineering - otherwise, things just don’t work.
- mooreds 4y ago
  I agree. Contracting is great, and no one cares about your age, just what you can do. I've been paid and paid thousands of dollars without ever actually meeting someone in-person. He should absolutely check his employment agreement, though, and make sure he doesn't: * use company equipment * do any work for a competitor * work on company time Contracting also is helpful because it is something he can dip his toe into without a large time commitment (as opposed to a job). I'd suggest he reach out to people he has worked with in the past that have left the company (LinkedIn is good, but Facebook might work well too). My go-to phrasing is: "Hiya, hope you are doing well. <Anecdote, like 'remember when we shipped project X? Guess what, it's still running today'.> I'm reaching out because I'm looking to do more contracting and to expand my network. In particular, I want to do <the type of work he wants to do>. I'd prefer to do it off hours, about <X hours a week>. Do you know anyone who is looking for a hand? If you do, or think of anyone, I'd sure appreciate an intro." This phrasing is far less direct than "Do you need help" but conveys the same message. He should also think about a rate that he'd work for, as that will likely be one of the first questions any possible client will have.
  - timmyboop 4y ago
    How do you do contract work where you get paid a significant amount without even meeting the person? How does a company or a person trust you to give you some work without even meeting in person. You must be doing something super right that some of us might not know that would open doors for us. Can you please elaborate?
UncleOxidant 4y ago
He's 70 and if he's been in engineering for a while I'd guess he's built up a good nest egg. And he could get Social Security if he's not already getting it. Why not quit and start his own company?
theGnuMe 4y ago
What does he mean by a more tech/engineering driven company? Do you have examples? Does he mean AWS or Oracle or Azure or GCP? Does your dad (and the cloud devops team) work with folks at their cloud provider and is it one of the big ones azure, gcp, aws. If he has close relationships with them then that might be a way in. Or is it a 3rd party contractor running the hospital-cloud interface? There is a lot of engineering to be done at the interface level even at the devops level. Right now cloud "devops" for hospitals is a big growth area and since he has experience in in that environment, I would think the bigger cloud providers would want his expertise as a solutions/support engineer. The other thing for him (and maybe you) to do would be to start a 3rd party cloud/devops integration company! There are also med-tech companies that deliver services through the cloud as well. Devops itself is arguably being eaten by software as things progress (as devops ate sys admin).
quickthrower2 4y ago
This post made me happy, just to know that there are 70 year olds working in software at the IC level. The oldest I have seen in my companies is probably 60 max - and I found a correlation between older people working in tech, and working as a freelancer / contractor. Probably because they have built up an expertise in an area so they can, plus enjoying the flexibility when you are possibly less reliant on the money (older kids, etc.). I want to see more people this age in tech, doing the coding / ops! As for advice - I am not sure! Just keep applying. Don't let the age be a factor for him, and then if it is a discrimination factor for employers then it is unfortunate but keep applying anyway. There are plenty of people who appreciate talent.

17 points by rcarndrums 4y ago

righttoolforjob 4y ago

What has he done in his career? It would be easier to help with a bit of history here. What did he enjoy the most? What did he feel he was best at? Why is he still working and not in retirement?

leed25d 4y ago
> Why is he still working and not in retirement? This should not be a question. It is none of your business.
- righttoolforjob 4y ago
  How about letting the person asking the question take a stance on that instead of you being offended from the side-line? I think it might be a very important piece of information to figure out a strategy going forward.
  - leed25d 4y ago
    I am not offended, not by a long shot but I would be if someone asked me similar question.
rcarndrums 4y ago
He's passionate about engineering and has a lot of energy which is why he's still working and wants to continue. I think his focus is on identity, worked for a few years before this as a support engineer for an enterprise software company which ended up moving to a different state (he liked that job a lot more). But he's had a spotty work history, taking up engineering late in life and starting his own IT company which shut down ~15 years ago.
- righttoolforjob 4y ago
  From what you've told so far, I think he should just simply look for another job. If it says DevOps, SAFe, Agile or something like that in the title or job description, then chances are the company has unfortunately been swindled by these snake oil salesmen and it will be hard to find time for good engineering. There can't really be a shortage for more support engineers if he likes that, but if he wants to do more core engineering then of course go for that. Most of the big enterprises should have room for him in many different departments and he might be comfortable and safe. As for concrete advice: Just go looking for jobs and weigh pros and cons. You can do it on his behalf and bring a few to him for discussion. Don't be pushy if he's not into the idea and just feels like complaining a bit. Sometimes all a person needs is a bit of acknowledgement and not a solution.

dylanhassinger 4y ago

Just like any age, apply to as many jobs as possible

gregjor 4y ago

I do a lot of cloud infrastructure and system admin, at 62. I freelance so no one cares about my age, only what I can deliver. I see lots of freelance opportunities for that work because many companies don't need full-time, can't afford, or can't find people.

ensemblehq 4y ago
I second this. Freelancing roles for cloud infrastructure (and even data infrastructure) might be a good fit because there is some degree of needing quality engineering - otherwise, things just don’t work.
mooreds 4y ago
I agree. Contracting is great, and no one cares about your age, just what you can do. I've been paid and paid thousands of dollars without ever actually meeting someone in-person. He should absolutely check his employment agreement, though, and make sure he doesn't: * use company equipment * do any work for a competitor * work on company time Contracting also is helpful because it is something he can dip his toe into without a large time commitment (as opposed to a job). I'd suggest he reach out to people he has worked with in the past that have left the company (LinkedIn is good, but Facebook might work well too). My go-to phrasing is: "Hiya, hope you are doing well. <Anecdote, like 'remember when we shipped project X? Guess what, it's still running today'.> I'm reaching out because I'm looking to do more contracting and to expand my network. In particular, I want to do <the type of work he wants to do>. I'd prefer to do it off hours, about <X hours a week>. Do you know anyone who is looking for a hand? If you do, or think of anyone, I'd sure appreciate an intro." This phrasing is far less direct than "Do you need help" but conveys the same message. He should also think about a rate that he'd work for, as that will likely be one of the first questions any possible client will have.
- timmyboop 4y ago
  How do you do contract work where you get paid a significant amount without even meeting the person? How does a company or a person trust you to give you some work without even meeting in person. You must be doing something super right that some of us might not know that would open doors for us. Can you please elaborate?

UncleOxidant 4y ago

He's 70 and if he's been in engineering for a while I'd guess he's built up a good nest egg. And he could get Social Security if he's not already getting it. Why not quit and start his own company?

theGnuMe 4y ago

What does he mean by a more tech/engineering driven company? Do you have examples? Does he mean AWS or Oracle or Azure or GCP? Does your dad (and the cloud devops team) work with folks at their cloud provider and is it one of the big ones azure, gcp, aws. If he has close relationships with them then that might be a way in. Or is it a 3rd party contractor running the hospital-cloud interface? There is a lot of engineering to be done at the interface level even at the devops level. Right now cloud "devops" for hospitals is a big growth area and since he has experience in in that environment, I would think the bigger cloud providers would want his expertise as a solutions/support engineer. The other thing for him (and maybe you) to do would be to start a 3rd party cloud/devops integration company! There are also med-tech companies that deliver services through the cloud as well. Devops itself is arguably being eaten by software as things progress (as devops ate sys admin).

quickthrower2 4y ago

This post made me happy, just to know that there are 70 year olds working in software at the IC level. The oldest I have seen in my companies is probably 60 max - and I found a correlation between older people working in tech, and working as a freelancer / contractor. Probably because they have built up an expertise in an area so they can, plus enjoying the flexibility when you are possibly less reliant on the money (older kids, etc.). I want to see more people this age in tech, doing the coding / ops! As for advice - I am not sure! Just keep applying. Don't let the age be a factor for him, and then if it is a discrimination factor for employers then it is unfortunate but keep applying anyway. There are plenty of people who appreciate talent.