7 ms·

Amazing to realize that 75% of the oceans - which are 70% of the earth's surface - are unmapped and unknown

by olivermarks 4y ago

iso1631 4y ago
How does that compare to the surface of the moon, or mars
- mkr-hn 4y ago
  The resolution could be better, but it's still better than what we have of the ocean floor. https://www.google.com/moon/ https://www.google.com/moon/
- fckgw 4y ago
  We know way more about the moon than we do the ocean. Most if not all of the moon not on the dark side is fully mapped.
  - mkr-hn 4y ago
    There is no permanently dark side of the moon. It's all lit eventually.
    - ortusdux 4y ago
      The far side of the Moon is the lunar hemisphere that always faces away from Earth, opposite to the near side, because of synchronous rotation in the moon's orbit. ... The hemisphere is sometimes called the "dark side of the Moon", where "dark" means "unknown" instead of "lacking sunlight" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_side_of_the_Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_side_of_the_Moon
      - messe 4y ago
        While you're not wrong, the grandparent comment said that most of the "dark side" is not fully mapped, implying—at least to in reading of it—that the reason it's not mapped is due to it being the "dark side". In reality though, our maps of the far side of the moon are as good as those on the near side.
        sophacles 4y ago
        If you re-read the quoted bit it addresses this "dark side" vs "far side": > The hemisphere is sometimes called the "dark side of the Moon", where "dark" means "unknown" instead of "lacking sunlight" [ed note: compare "dark ages"] So the "unknown" (relatively anyway) side of the moon is less mapped, but not because it's unlit, but because it's dark. The lit side of the moon is well mapped, not because it's always lit - sometimes it's unlit, but it's certainly the known bit as we've been looking at it since before we were human.
      - MichaelCollins 4y ago
        > The hemisphere is sometimes called the "dark side of the Moon", where "dark" means "unknown" instead of "lacking sunlight" Tbqh I think "dark side of the moon" is more often a genuine misconception than a poetic way of saying unknown. Fundamental misconceptions of the Moon abound, such as the mistaken belief that the Moon is opposite of the sun and rises when the Sun sets. You'd think that people would notice the Moon in the sky during the day for much of the month, but some people just don't pay attention to the sky, don't think about it much, and pick up the meme of the antisolar synchronous moon from cartoons, video games and grandfather clocks. And sometimes people simply mispeak, perhaps due to Pink Floyd.
  - gorgoiler 4y ago
    That sort of makes sense. Not only are we naturally positioned above the moon, looking down on it, but it’s also not covered in a 5000m thick layer of dilute whale effluent.
BurningFrog 4y ago
99% of what's 10 meters below the surface on land is probably also unknown.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Soil scientists and some conservationists will tell you that 95% of what's a centimeter underground is unknown as well.
  - JKCalhoun 4y ago
    I read somewhere E. O. Wilson stating that were he to start over again he would go into research of life in the soil. He also said there is so little we understand about the things just beneath our feet.
    - asdff 4y ago
      We don't even know how to document it all when we extract DNA from soil. You might be able to put things into general families of species but too much is uncharacterized. Some research is opting to just consider things in terms of ecological niches occupied instead of absolute species found.
    - louky 4y ago
      Even on, and in our feet.
- JamilD 4y ago
  There's an aquatic cave in Death Valley called Devil's Hole; divers have gone to ~600 ft, but the cave is likely over twice as deep. A magnitude 7.6 earthquake 1,500 miles away caused 4 ft high waves at Devil's Hole: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-earthquake-triggers-4-foot-waves-death-valley-national-park/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-earthquake-triggers-4-fo... It may be that the aquifer in Devil's Hole is somehow connected to a network of underwater aquifers thousands of miles away in Mexico… but we just don't know, and have no way of knowing right now.
Alupis 4y ago
These sorts of things really give me pause when thinking about colonizing Mars and all of the hand-waiving that gets tossed around. We still do not know a lot about our own planet. What makes us so confident we won't just screw up another planet with our lack of understanding...
- lazide 4y ago
  With our current understanding and technical abilities - no need to worry, they’d all die shortly or bankrupt the host country.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Miracle Max: Look, I'm retired. And besides, why would you want someone the King's stinking son fired? I might kill whoever you wanted me to miracle. Inigo: He's already dead. Miracle Max: He is, huh? I'll take a look. Bring him in. We screw up everything. The question is, can we leave places alone and screw up others instead? Screwing up the moon is probably better than screwing up Yosemite, or the Great Barrier Reef.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    Screwing it up today prevents us from doing something useful tomorrow with a more complete understanding. Patience is a virtue, as they say. I fear the current raft of would-be planet colonizers are not very patient...
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  There isn't much to screw up on a dead planet.
  - louky 4y ago
    I'll bite. You know it's dead how? Mind you I grew up reading Heinlein juveniles like Red Planet.
    - BurningFrog 4y ago
wrp 4y ago
I've read that for some parts of the world, ocean floor maps are still based on data from 18th century surveys.
- jjav 4y ago
  Nautical charts incorporate the latest (usually) data from each area, but it's eye opening to realize that in many areas the most recent data is actually centuries old. https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/updates/how-accurate-are-nautical-charts/ https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/updates/how-accurate-are-nau...
stuffinmyhand 4y ago
That was 95% when I first heard this years back

Amazing to realize that 75% of the oceans - which are 70% of the earth's surface - are unmapped and unknown

iso1631 4y ago

How does that compare to the surface of the moon, or mars

mkr-hn 4y ago
The resolution could be better, but it's still better than what we have of the ocean floor. https://www.google.com/moon/ https://www.google.com/moon/
fckgw 4y ago
We know way more about the moon than we do the ocean. Most if not all of the moon not on the dark side is fully mapped.
- mkr-hn 4y ago
  There is no permanently dark side of the moon. It's all lit eventually.
  - ortusdux 4y ago
    The far side of the Moon is the lunar hemisphere that always faces away from Earth, opposite to the near side, because of synchronous rotation in the moon's orbit. ... The hemisphere is sometimes called the "dark side of the Moon", where "dark" means "unknown" instead of "lacking sunlight" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_side_of_the_Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_side_of_the_Moon
    - messe 4y ago
      While you're not wrong, the grandparent comment said that most of the "dark side" is not fully mapped, implying—at least to in reading of it—that the reason it's not mapped is due to it being the "dark side". In reality though, our maps of the far side of the moon are as good as those on the near side.
      - sophacles 4y ago
        If you re-read the quoted bit it addresses this "dark side" vs "far side": > The hemisphere is sometimes called the "dark side of the Moon", where "dark" means "unknown" instead of "lacking sunlight" [ed note: compare "dark ages"] So the "unknown" (relatively anyway) side of the moon is less mapped, but not because it's unlit, but because it's dark. The lit side of the moon is well mapped, not because it's always lit - sometimes it's unlit, but it's certainly the known bit as we've been looking at it since before we were human.
    - MichaelCollins 4y ago
      > The hemisphere is sometimes called the "dark side of the Moon", where "dark" means "unknown" instead of "lacking sunlight" Tbqh I think "dark side of the moon" is more often a genuine misconception than a poetic way of saying unknown. Fundamental misconceptions of the Moon abound, such as the mistaken belief that the Moon is opposite of the sun and rises when the Sun sets. You'd think that people would notice the Moon in the sky during the day for much of the month, but some people just don't pay attention to the sky, don't think about it much, and pick up the meme of the antisolar synchronous moon from cartoons, video games and grandfather clocks. And sometimes people simply mispeak, perhaps due to Pink Floyd.
- gorgoiler 4y ago
  That sort of makes sense. Not only are we naturally positioned above the moon, looking down on it, but it’s also not covered in a 5000m thick layer of dilute whale effluent.

BurningFrog 4y ago

99% of what's 10 meters below the surface on land is probably also unknown.

hinkley 4y ago
Soil scientists and some conservationists will tell you that 95% of what's a centimeter underground is unknown as well.
- JKCalhoun 4y ago
  I read somewhere E. O. Wilson stating that were he to start over again he would go into research of life in the soil. He also said there is so little we understand about the things just beneath our feet.
  - asdff 4y ago
    We don't even know how to document it all when we extract DNA from soil. You might be able to put things into general families of species but too much is uncharacterized. Some research is opting to just consider things in terms of ecological niches occupied instead of absolute species found.
  - louky 4y ago
    Even on, and in our feet.
JamilD 4y ago
There's an aquatic cave in Death Valley called Devil's Hole; divers have gone to ~600 ft, but the cave is likely over twice as deep. A magnitude 7.6 earthquake 1,500 miles away caused 4 ft high waves at Devil's Hole: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-earthquake-triggers-4-foot-waves-death-valley-national-park/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-earthquake-triggers-4-fo... It may be that the aquifer in Devil's Hole is somehow connected to a network of underwater aquifers thousands of miles away in Mexico… but we just don't know, and have no way of knowing right now.

Alupis 4y ago

These sorts of things really give me pause when thinking about colonizing Mars and all of the hand-waiving that gets tossed around. We still do not know a lot about our own planet. What makes us so confident we won't just screw up another planet with our lack of understanding...

lazide 4y ago
With our current understanding and technical abilities - no need to worry, they’d all die shortly or bankrupt the host country.
hinkley 4y ago
Miracle Max: Look, I'm retired. And besides, why would you want someone the King's stinking son fired? I might kill whoever you wanted me to miracle. Inigo: He's already dead. Miracle Max: He is, huh? I'll take a look. Bring him in. We screw up everything. The question is, can we leave places alone and screw up others instead? Screwing up the moon is probably better than screwing up Yosemite, or the Great Barrier Reef.
- Alupis 4y ago
  Screwing it up today prevents us from doing something useful tomorrow with a more complete understanding. Patience is a virtue, as they say. I fear the current raft of would-be planet colonizers are not very patient...
BurningFrog 4y ago
There isn't much to screw up on a dead planet.
- louky 4y ago
  I'll bite. You know it's dead how? Mind you I grew up reading Heinlein juveniles like Red Planet.
  - BurningFrog 4y ago

wrp 4y ago

I've read that for some parts of the world, ocean floor maps are still based on data from 18th century surveys.

jjav 4y ago
Nautical charts incorporate the latest (usually) data from each area, but it's eye opening to realize that in many areas the most recent data is actually centuries old. https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/updates/how-accurate-are-nautical-charts/ https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/updates/how-accurate-are-nau...

stuffinmyhand 4y ago

That was 95% when I first heard this years back