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> Given the experience of the US Navy in nuclear power generation, I don't think their doomsday scenarios are inevitable. I often see this given as a reason fo

> Given the experience of the US Navy in nuclear power generation, I don't think their doomsday scenarios are inevitable. I often see this given as a reason for why nuclear power generation can be safe, but I think it overlooks the fact that military reactors operate in a very different context from civilian ones. For a start, do we know how expensive (per unit energy) US Navy reactors are? It doesn't matter how safe they are if they are twice as expensive as renewables (plus storage / power-to-gas). More generally, though, given the secrecy around military and nuclear programs, would we even know how many near-meltdowns and embarrassing accidents US Navy reactors have experienced (at least in the past few decades)?

asdff 4y ago
We would have known about near meltdowns by now, which probably would have been more common in the early decades of nuclear navy power, considering we know things like how the air force nearly destroyed a huge swath of North Carolina due to an accident involving a nuclear bomb for example.
JohnBooty 4y ago
do we know how expensive (per unit energy) US Navy reactors are? It doesn't matter how safe they are if they are twice as expensive as renewables (plus storage / power-to-gas). Renewables (and fusion, although that's arguably a renewable) are obviously the end goal but until they can fill 100% of our energy needs the real cost comparison needs to be "the cost of nuclear" versus "the cost of fossil fuel plus the cost of the damage done by fossil fuels."
stjohnswarts 4y ago
renewables make sense if you can prove to me that you can make them reliable like nuclear, but you can't. Someday I suppose a high density, cheap "battery" tech will happen that will make that true, but right now it's simply not true and the Germans are getting ready to find that out this winter, unfortunately via much higher prices via power imported from adjacent countries using dino-fuel and likely blackouts from time to time.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > reliable like nuclear To be clear, the capacity factor of France's nuclear power stations is "about 70%"[a] (and was "61 percent"[b] in 1988), while recent offshore wind farms manage a "65% capacity factor"[c]. It's also worth noting that there is less parallelism in nuclear reactor designs than in wind farms, so a single mechanical or structural fault (or just the need for regular maintenance and inspection) can take out an entire nuclear reactor, whereas a wind farm can shut down a single turbine without much impact. So there are certainly differences in the sorts of guarantees that the different types of power station can provide, but I think you need to be a lot more precise about what you mean by "reliable" in order to judge what, if anything, renewables are lacking as an alternative energy source. [a] https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... [b] http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/electricit%C3%A9-de-france-history/ http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/electricit%... [c] https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/worlds-first-floating-offshore-wind-farm-65-capacity-factor https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/worlds-first-fl...
someweirdperson 4y ago
> For a start, do we know how expensive (per unit energy) US Navy reactors are? Price does not matter. It has to work reliably, not only in calm days of peace, but during times of war. Having a source of power to move the big boats without relying on external supplies is worth the price. There even were experiments to generate jetfuel using nuclear power on carriers, certainly not because it is cheap.
- djbebs 4y ago
  Price does matter though.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    Sure, just remember to account for the environmental cost of climate change when evaluating the true cost of gas and coal plants.

asdff 4y ago

We would have known about near meltdowns by now, which probably would have been more common in the early decades of nuclear navy power, considering we know things like how the air force nearly destroyed a huge swath of North Carolina due to an accident involving a nuclear bomb for example.

JohnBooty 4y ago

do we know how expensive (per unit energy) US Navy reactors are? It doesn't matter how safe they are if they are twice as expensive as renewables (plus storage / power-to-gas). Renewables (and fusion, although that's arguably a renewable) are obviously the end goal but until they can fill 100% of our energy needs the real cost comparison needs to be "the cost of nuclear" versus "the cost of fossil fuel plus the cost of the damage done by fossil fuels."

stjohnswarts 4y ago

renewables make sense if you can prove to me that you can make them reliable like nuclear, but you can't. Someday I suppose a high density, cheap "battery" tech will happen that will make that true, but right now it's simply not true and the Germans are getting ready to find that out this winter, unfortunately via much higher prices via power imported from adjacent countries using dino-fuel and likely blackouts from time to time.

dane-pgp 4y ago
> reliable like nuclear To be clear, the capacity factor of France's nuclear power stations is "about 70%"[a] (and was "61 percent"[b] in 1988), while recent offshore wind farms manage a "65% capacity factor"[c]. It's also worth noting that there is less parallelism in nuclear reactor designs than in wind farms, so a single mechanical or structural fault (or just the need for regular maintenance and inspection) can take out an entire nuclear reactor, whereas a wind farm can shut down a single turbine without much impact. So there are certainly differences in the sorts of guarantees that the different types of power station can provide, but I think you need to be a lot more precise about what you mean by "reliable" in order to judge what, if anything, renewables are lacking as an alternative energy source. [a] https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profiles/countries-a-f/france.aspx https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-pr... [b] http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/electricit%C3%A9-de-france-history/ http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/electricit%... [c] https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/worlds-first-floating-offshore-wind-farm-65-capacity-factor https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/worlds-first-fl...

someweirdperson 4y ago

> For a start, do we know how expensive (per unit energy) US Navy reactors are? Price does not matter. It has to work reliably, not only in calm days of peace, but during times of war. Having a source of power to move the big boats without relying on external supplies is worth the price. There even were experiments to generate jetfuel using nuclear power on carriers, certainly not because it is cheap.

djbebs 4y ago
Price does matter though.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  Sure, just remember to account for the environmental cost of climate change when evaluating the true cost of gas and coal plants.