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It's interesting to see how being in the same league as kubernetes could either be considered a compliment or an insult depending on who you ask!
by jabo 4y ago
It's interesting to see how being in the same league as kubernetes could either be considered a compliment or an insult depending on who you ask!
- GiorgioG 4y agoK8s is a complexity sinkhole for 99% of companies. It's an insult.
- alfalfasprout 4y agoIt's funny how we spend SO much time dealing with K8s related nuances and limitations. In practice, I'm not so sure anymore even for a large enterprise that K8s actually simplifies things in any way or adds more robustness.
- mountainriver 4y agoUh huh here we go. What other tool do you propose for running many containers with dependencies on one another? Or why should I target a bunch of different cloud APIs to make my tool consumable when I can target one?
- capableweb 4y agoFirst question: why you need many containers for just 3000 users? That should easily run on a cheap VPS unless you're doing something ridiculously complex. Why target any cloud APIs at all if your product have a small amount of users? You don't need to scale up/down fast at if you're just at 3000 users. Throw it on a Linux box, write a systemd service and be done with it.
- mountainriver 4y agoI'm not talking about 3k users, he said 99% of use cases
- capableweb 4y ago> 99% of companies Most companies have small amount of users and don't have rapidly shrinking/growing user bases, meaning their infrastructure need is not rapidly shrinking/growing neither, in most cases. Hence, Kubernetes being accidental complexity most people can do without, rather than necessary complexity.
- mountainriver 4y agoEh I don't have the numbers, but every company I've worked for has had lots of users. Their infra wasn't shrinking or growing much to make good use of k8s. Mainly they needed to link a bunch of runtime containers together built by different teams. I get why people say k8s is complex, but there really isn't another great option for running a containerized service based architecture, maybe nomad
- httgp 4y agoNomad is pretty fantastic!
- mountainriver 4y agoYeah nomad is okay but not as functional as k8s (yet)
- capableweb 4y agoWhat are you able to do in Kubernetes that you cannot (yet) do in Nomad? Seems to cover exactly the same use cases, and more even, as you can run non-containers in Nomad and also Nomad seems to require less resources for hosts so you could run it on much smaller devices/instances.
- mountainriver 4y agoWell for one, you need to pair nomad with consul and vault just to get remotely close. Then you are missing all the packages purpose built for k8s, the extensibility of k8s, and Nomad is built by a for profit company while k8s is purely OSS
- capableweb 4y agoYeah, guess Nomad plays a bit more the role of "do one thing well" rather than "everything in a box" approach that Kubernetes has. And for sure, Kubernetes ecosystem is a bit wider than Nomad at the moment. But again, what specifically are you able to do in Kubernetes that you cannot do in Nomad? You mentioned it's not as "functional" but seems you're unable to actually specify what you mean by this. > Nomad is built by a for profit company while k8s is purely OSS Not sure how you can claim Kubernetes somehow is "more OSS" than Nomad? Both are under FOSS licenses (Nomad: MPL, Kubernetes: Apache) but both are mainly maintained by two big for-profit companies (Nomad: HashiCorp, Kubernetes: Google). They are both the same in this regard, both are the "same amount of OSS", whatever that means.
- 4y ago
- pclmulqdq 4y agoWhat problem do those containers solve for you that you can't solve with a VPS? What cloud APIs are involved in running Linux on a VPS? Backups for your VPS are often one click to set up, and the only vendor-specific service you need.
- ipaddr 4y agoYou've inspired me to give it a chance.