5 ms·

There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil. The reason for that is that until th

by kleiba 4y ago

There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil. The reason for that is that until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil. And let's not forget that the current "shortage" is a result of political decisions, and not because gas and oil have ceased to exist. Germany is in the process of moving to greener energies, not just on the state level but also in private homes. But that's mostly true for new constructions of which there are comparatively few. Coincidentally, the German government has recently announced to de-incentivize new construction and rather suggest updating existing houses. It will take many years, though, to get all those houses to move off of gas and oil, especially because Germany has a relatively high percentage of rentals over home owners. There's no real reason for landlords to update the heating system of their investment properties because the cost for heating is paid by the tenants anyway.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil If the 2014 invasion of Ukraine wasn't a dead giveaway, I don't know what else could habe make it more foreseeable. It was very foreseeable. Both the US and other Eastern European nations warned about this but Germany chose to be ignorant till the very end.
MrPatan 4y ago
> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine The russian invasion of Ukraine happened because Germany is dependant on Russian gas.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Care to elaborate? Or wouldn't have Russia invaded if Germany (and a large part of Europe, by the way) did rely on Russian gas? That kind of doesn't make any sense, since it was Russia who cut gas supply, and not vice versa. So Russia doesn't seem to have any interest in selling gas to Europe.
nemo44x 4y ago
> ...it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil. If you don't supply it yourself then it isn't unforeseeable. In fact, I'd say it's inevitable. It's only unforeseeable as to when it will occur. Energy independence is a great thing for this reason.
_dain_ 4y ago
>There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil Yes and why is that? Electric heating is not some space-age technology. It has been around for a century. There are countries where it's ubiquitous. Saying "Germany doesn't have the infra for electric heating" is not an explanation. It's just restating the problem in different words. It isn't some accident, it happened by deliberate policy. I keep harping on this point, but the German government has spent cumulatively half a trillion USD on moving toward green energy, ostensibly in the name of combatting global warming. And yet with all that money and effort, they couldn't transition towards ubiquitous electric heating? Instead, they wrecked their one dependable green energy source (uranium) and became further dependent on Russian gas, which fuels global warming even more (despite propaganda to the contrary). It's all because wind and solar are intermittent, there's nowhere near enough storage capacity on the grid and there won't be for decades, and their politicians have their heads in the sand about the whole business.
- Isolus 4y ago
  > Yes and why is that? Gas price was 4 ct/kWh two years ago, electricity at 35 ct/kWh. People always take what is currently the cheapest. > It's all because wind and solar are intermittent, there's nowhere near enough storage capacity on the grid and there won't be for decades, and their politicians have their heads in the sand about the whole business. They didn't put their heads in the sand. The former government sabotaged the whole renewable industry again and again (e. g. they didn't allow building new renewable power plants for years, storage facilities need to pay for the grid when they store energy and when they release it so they can't be competetitive to gas).
nyokodo 4y ago
> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil Except it was foreseeable and foreseen [1] just very politically and economically inconvenient. 1. https://www.gmfus.org/news/why-germans-ignored-putins-true-nature-so-long https://www.gmfus.org/news/why-germans-ignored-putins-true-n...

by kleiba 4y ago

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil If the 2014 invasion of Ukraine wasn't a dead giveaway, I don't know what else could habe make it more foreseeable. It was very foreseeable. Both the US and other Eastern European nations warned about this but Germany chose to be ignorant till the very end.

MrPatan 4y ago

> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine The russian invasion of Ukraine happened because Germany is dependant on Russian gas.

hef19898 4y ago
Care to elaborate? Or wouldn't have Russia invaded if Germany (and a large part of Europe, by the way) did rely on Russian gas? That kind of doesn't make any sense, since it was Russia who cut gas supply, and not vice versa. So Russia doesn't seem to have any interest in selling gas to Europe.

nemo44x 4y ago

> ...it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil. If you don't supply it yourself then it isn't unforeseeable. In fact, I'd say it's inevitable. It's only unforeseeable as to when it will occur. Energy independence is a great thing for this reason.

_dain_ 4y ago

>There is no widespread infrastructure for heating with electricity, the dominant sources for heating homes are gas and oil Yes and why is that? Electric heating is not some space-age technology. It has been around for a century. There are countries where it's ubiquitous. Saying "Germany doesn't have the infra for electric heating" is not an explanation. It's just restating the problem in different words. It isn't some accident, it happened by deliberate policy. I keep harping on this point, but the German government has spent cumulatively half a trillion USD on moving toward green energy, ostensibly in the name of combatting global warming. And yet with all that money and effort, they couldn't transition towards ubiquitous electric heating? Instead, they wrecked their one dependable green energy source (uranium) and became further dependent on Russian gas, which fuels global warming even more (despite propaganda to the contrary). It's all because wind and solar are intermittent, there's nowhere near enough storage capacity on the grid and there won't be for decades, and their politicians have their heads in the sand about the whole business.

Isolus 4y ago
> Yes and why is that? Gas price was 4 ct/kWh two years ago, electricity at 35 ct/kWh. People always take what is currently the cheapest. > It's all because wind and solar are intermittent, there's nowhere near enough storage capacity on the grid and there won't be for decades, and their politicians have their heads in the sand about the whole business. They didn't put their heads in the sand. The former government sabotaged the whole renewable industry again and again (e. g. they didn't allow building new renewable power plants for years, storage facilities need to pay for the grid when they store energy and when they release it so they can't be competetitive to gas).

nyokodo 4y ago

> until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, it was unforeseeable that there would be a shortage of gas or oil Except it was foreseeable and foreseen [1] just very politically and economically inconvenient. 1. https://www.gmfus.org/news/why-germans-ignored-putins-true-nature-so-long https://www.gmfus.org/news/why-germans-ignored-putins-true-n...