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Before we go runaway with this, I think it's reasonable to also ask: how many people who are displaying victimhood are victims? Maybe people who desire to manip

Before we go runaway with this, I think it's reasonable to also ask: how many people who are displaying victimhood are victims? Maybe people who desire to manipulate others may use victimhood to do so, but are they statistically significant in population to all victims?

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
For what it's worth, these questions have been asked in the context of women/men and sexual conduct. The pendulum swung from "women are ridiculed for being victims" to "men can't be victims and women are always victims". Research is now coming out that a lot of male victims go unnoticed and quite a few women are misusing the status quo. Now the pendulum threatens to swing back to "women are ridiculed" again. The question itself only matters if no method exists where the pendulum can be dampened more quickly. Given history, there is reason to believe such a method exists.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  Yes, in the context of sexual misconduct what is the percentage of victims who are actually victims? Like if narcissists lying about sexual misconduct is statistically a rounding error, that's really important to know.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    This is changing all the time due to the way it is reported, extrapolation, etc. But let's be extreme and pretend half are false. Of the half that are false, only a portion has a narcissist false flagging. All the cases are man on woman. Now I don't believe the number of false accussations is close to half (yet, anyway), but even if it were, ask yourself: Would you want to ignore the half of true victims, Would you utilize an aggressive method (e.g. Duluth model) or utilize a safer method, if you know one exists, and Does any of this mean woman on man sexual misconduct should be downplayed? Sure, the actual statistics matter once trade offs come into play. But people are already failing the basic litmus test of answering the questions above. And that's how the pendulum of grief swings on.
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      I'm not asking about hypotheticals. I want to know any actual studies or even attempts at studies. There's no point in speculating about pendulums or anything if there aren't basic numbers and population sizes to work with. If people are funding research to determine how often narcissists accuse falsely of sexual misconduct I'd be interested to know what percentage of sexual misconduct are false to begin with so I know how to contextualize the study.
noobermin 4y ago
The fact is a lot of people in this comment section will use articles like this to attack all victims which is pretty terrible. It's important to remember dark traid types are a sheer minority of people, so it is not at all likely for example your co-worker bringing up things to HR is a dark-triad person. As usual, people should trust but verify. If some people are clamoring that today's "mob" doesn't give due process, the important thing is to actually give due process in deed, and not dismiss people's grievances out of hand.
scarmig 4y ago
Nonvictims who display victimhood are overrepresented in media, government, and the corporate world compared to actual victims, because (almost by definition) they don't face the same barriers of access that actual victims do.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  Do we have studies about this? I'm good-faith asking here.
thrown_22 4y ago

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

For what it's worth, these questions have been asked in the context of women/men and sexual conduct. The pendulum swung from "women are ridiculed for being victims" to "men can't be victims and women are always victims". Research is now coming out that a lot of male victims go unnoticed and quite a few women are misusing the status quo. Now the pendulum threatens to swing back to "women are ridiculed" again. The question itself only matters if no method exists where the pendulum can be dampened more quickly. Given history, there is reason to believe such a method exists.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
Yes, in the context of sexual misconduct what is the percentage of victims who are actually victims? Like if narcissists lying about sexual misconduct is statistically a rounding error, that's really important to know.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  This is changing all the time due to the way it is reported, extrapolation, etc. But let's be extreme and pretend half are false. Of the half that are false, only a portion has a narcissist false flagging. All the cases are man on woman. Now I don't believe the number of false accussations is close to half (yet, anyway), but even if it were, ask yourself: Would you want to ignore the half of true victims, Would you utilize an aggressive method (e.g. Duluth model) or utilize a safer method, if you know one exists, and Does any of this mean woman on man sexual misconduct should be downplayed? Sure, the actual statistics matter once trade offs come into play. But people are already failing the basic litmus test of answering the questions above. And that's how the pendulum of grief swings on.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    I'm not asking about hypotheticals. I want to know any actual studies or even attempts at studies. There's no point in speculating about pendulums or anything if there aren't basic numbers and population sizes to work with. If people are funding research to determine how often narcissists accuse falsely of sexual misconduct I'd be interested to know what percentage of sexual misconduct are false to begin with so I know how to contextualize the study.

noobermin 4y ago

The fact is a lot of people in this comment section will use articles like this to attack all victims which is pretty terrible. It's important to remember dark traid types are a sheer minority of people, so it is not at all likely for example your co-worker bringing up things to HR is a dark-triad person. As usual, people should trust but verify. If some people are clamoring that today's "mob" doesn't give due process, the important thing is to actually give due process in deed, and not dismiss people's grievances out of hand.

scarmig 4y ago

Nonvictims who display victimhood are overrepresented in media, government, and the corporate world compared to actual victims, because (almost by definition) they don't face the same barriers of access that actual victims do.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
Do we have studies about this? I'm good-faith asking here.

thrown_22 4y ago