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Why does it have to be one or the other? The point of the article is that it should not be one or the other, different students need different things. It is t

Why does it have to be one or the other? The point of the article is that it should not be one or the other, different students need different things. It is the removal of tracking, the removal of vocational education, the denial of differences in students and the insistence in homogenized education that is wrecking schools. If only 37 percent of 12th graders can do the math needed to start college, maybe only 37 percent of 12 graders should be going into debt for a college education.

readthenotes1 4y ago
The push for equity says that no students should be able to do the math needed to start college
zozbot234 4y ago
Tracking is a terrible idea. To make it work effectively you need very efficient remedial teaching for the students who fall off of the "advanced/gifted" track, and that's antithetical to the whole "students should all be learning their math by themselves, not via rote instruction" schtick that's increasingly being pushed in elite "education" degree programs.
- ndriscoll 4y ago
  What does effectively mean here? Do you mean to somehow catch the remedial kids up to the advanced kids, or just help everyone move at the pace they're capable of? Having everyone move at the pace of the most advanced is obviously not possible, but why do you need specifically efficient remedial teaching for them to move at an appropriate pace?
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    > but why do you need specifically efficient remedial teaching for them to move at an appropriate pace? Maybe you wouldn't if all teaching was appropriately structured. But remedial instruction is where the flaws of the nowadays-conventional approach of expecting students to "inquire" about math on their own and come up with their own ways of problem-solving are most evident.
    - ndriscoll 4y ago
      I'm not sure I understand still; when I was a student I found my classes to move at a tediously slow pace, often going into detail about and even repeating obvious things. Even in university engineering classes (e.g. walking through "Fourier's trick" multiple times when it's just a dot product/projection). You seem to be saying we need more of that (and maybe that's true for most people!). Wouldn't that mean tracking is a better solution? Let the advanced kids who can quickly understand/infer the ideas and techniques move on, and walk through the details/give lots of practice to the other kids?

readthenotes1 4y ago

The push for equity says that no students should be able to do the math needed to start college

zozbot234 4y ago

Tracking is a terrible idea. To make it work effectively you need very efficient remedial teaching for the students who fall off of the "advanced/gifted" track, and that's antithetical to the whole "students should all be learning their math by themselves, not via rote instruction" schtick that's increasingly being pushed in elite "education" degree programs.

ndriscoll 4y ago
What does effectively mean here? Do you mean to somehow catch the remedial kids up to the advanced kids, or just help everyone move at the pace they're capable of? Having everyone move at the pace of the most advanced is obviously not possible, but why do you need specifically efficient remedial teaching for them to move at an appropriate pace?
- zozbot234 4y ago
  > but why do you need specifically efficient remedial teaching for them to move at an appropriate pace? Maybe you wouldn't if all teaching was appropriately structured. But remedial instruction is where the flaws of the nowadays-conventional approach of expecting students to "inquire" about math on their own and come up with their own ways of problem-solving are most evident.
  - ndriscoll 4y ago
    I'm not sure I understand still; when I was a student I found my classes to move at a tediously slow pace, often going into detail about and even repeating obvious things. Even in university engineering classes (e.g. walking through "Fourier's trick" multiple times when it's just a dot product/projection). You seem to be saying we need more of that (and maybe that's true for most people!). Wouldn't that mean tracking is a better solution? Let the advanced kids who can quickly understand/infer the ideas and techniques move on, and walk through the details/give lots of practice to the other kids?