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As someone who doesn't listen to much rap / hip hop, and can only name his cover (adaptation?) of Stronger, I do know who Kanye is. I don't know anything about

As someone who doesn't listen to much rap / hip hop, and can only name his cover (adaptation?) of Stronger, I do know who Kanye is. I don't know anything about his music. Mostly I just know of him because he's a very public asshole. Much like his wife. I find it basically impossible to empathize with him. I just wouldn't ever be in that situation. "Rising against adversity" is not the story I'd be be using here so much as just a typical strongman bravado leading to an absolute disconnect from reality. I would wager greatly that it's not that he's grown cynical to people saying he can't do something, but that he's become delusional from people telling him a genius. People who convince themselves that they're smart do this thing where they have an idea, and conclude that because they've come up with it and they're smart that it must be a well reasoned idea.

viscanti 4y ago
> "Rising against adversity" is not the story I'd be be using here so much as just a typical strongman bravado leading to an absolute disconnect from reality. It's not really a story of rising against adversity though. It's that people who have a lot of success doing something have trouble turning around and doing the opposite. There seems to be a human tendency to double down on what people think got them their success.
davewritescode 4y ago
Early Kanye West brought a lot of attention to social issues through his music and was one of the first hip-hop artists to publicly advocate for acceptance of gay folks in hip-hop culture at a time when gay slurs were very common. His first album was downright wholesome as far as hip-hop and there's a reason he was so beloved. He's been on a long, slow, downward trajectory with his mental health since the death of his mother and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anybody looking out for him anymore. It's really sad to watch at this point. This is an interview from 2005 where Kanye defended gay people when it wasn't exactly popular. Trigger warning for gay slurs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp45-dQvqPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp45-dQvqPo
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  I don't feel that's particularly incompatible with anything I said.
  - dcow 4y ago
    GP is simply offering some context since you said you don't know Kanye at all and have only encountered him recently. It was never intended to be incompatible.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      Fair I guess. I'm not sure about the "recently" comment though. He's been making a ruckus for well over a decade now.
      - nwienert 4y ago
        He’s an artist, he’s supposed to be messy. But you also clearly have no idea who he is and what’s he’s stood for - the guy is single-handedly responsible for turning the tide on Gangster rap. Here’s one way to put it: No other man alive today is more responsible for changing negative to positive messages in popular music today. He’s literally one of the most thoughtful and revolutionary artists alive. But of course you’d have to have listened to his albums from the start and followed along with interviews not just reading all the headlines on Reddit or Twitter. And no, he hasn’t degraded. Ye, TLOP, Kids See Ghosts, Jesus is King are all massively successful unique pieces of art. It’s hard to compare him to anyone - MJ stayed within one genre, only really the Beatles maybe had as much diversity of novel styles. If you only pay attention to the media you’d have your opinion. It’s so out of wack with reality though. But that’s what we have all across this entire forsaken thread - a bunch of totally naive people who aren’t even 1% familiar with his corpus of work or history calling him sick and worse.
- tmpz22 4y ago
  > one of the first hip-hop artists to publicly advocate for acceptance of gay folks in hip-hop culture That's interesting - I've listened to his music since the beginning and would've assumed the opposite based on his reaction to the South Park Fish Sticks episode. Is there a specific song/album/statement he made that shows support for the LGBT community? As he's turned deeply religious (supports mega churches) + conservative in recent years I'd further expect him to not support LGBT groups.
elmomle 4y ago
> I just wouldn't ever be in that situation That seems to me to be impossible to say with certainty.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Short of something fundamentally changing my personality, I'm absolutely certain that I would never do the things he does.
  - sleepymoose 4y ago
    Almost as if his mental health (or lack thereof) has fundamentally changed his personality.
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      His rise to fame is largely predicated on that personality and has been present for over a decade? Maybe it is a result of mental health issues. But then the premise of his success feels very different.
  - Kranar 4y ago
    >Short of something fundamentally changing my personality, Something like... a mental illness?
qq66 4y ago
> Mostly I just know of him because he's a very public asshole. Much like his wife. By "his wife" do you mean his ex-wife Kim Kardashian? If so, in what ways is she an asshole?
- fmdragon 4y ago
  I believe that OP meant that his ex-wife HAS a very public asshole.
- gardenhedge 4y ago
  Pushing unrealistic beauty standards on to teens
- knownastron 4y ago
  I agree. Kim has her faults but I don't recall a time when she has been an asshole to anyone. I think this shows that the commenter is biased and doesn't have the full picture.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    I certainly do not. Though I was under the impression that her entire brand was showcased on a show where they went over the top being vain, petty, and brandishing the biggest ego's they could muster?
- werber 4y ago
  She's under investigation for a crypto scam, https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-183 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-183 she's also long been criticized for cultural appropriation, https://time.com/6072750/kardashians-blackfishing-appropriation/ https://time.com/6072750/kardashians-blackfishing-appropriat...
  - technotony 4y ago
    She settled with the SEC: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/kim-kardashian-settles-sec-charges-instagram-crypto-promotion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/kim-kardashian-settles-sec-c...
nemothekid 4y ago
>I would wager greatly that it's not that he's grown cynical to people saying he can't do something, but that he's become delusional from people telling him a genius. I've been wary of defending Kanye online lately, but Kanye's influence isn't just "rap / hip hop". Kanye also broke into luxury/high-end fashion quite unexpectedly where he was given the same sort of push back. It started with him interning at Fendi (when he already was one of the largest entertainers on the planet) alongside a group of other eclectic individuals (the other most notable one, Virgil Abloh, who would go on to become creative director of Louis Vuitton). He captured lightning twice and I can't imagine that developing into a personality into anything other than "everyone else is wrong". That said, I don't think he's become delusional from people telling him he's a "genius", or from mental illness. Since 2020, I've seen scores of people all fall into the internet misinformation pipeline and I don't think Kanye is any different - he just has the largest platform. He's no more mentally ill than your uncle who believed COVID was a hoax. Everything he is saying is currently "mainstream" conservative ideology, his talking points are lifted directly from Candace Owens who is employed by The Daily Wire, which is run by the most famous conservative personality, Ben Shapiro, (maybe after Tucker Carlson).
- sanderjd 4y ago
  I think Kanye actually is more mentally ill than our misguided uncles. I believe he has even spoken about his struggles with it during more lucid times.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  I think you're significantly overstating his impact on the fashion world.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  >Kanye also broke into luxury/high-end fashion the secret here is that the emperor has no clothes, and Kanye's fashion garbage is equally as garbage as the rest of the high end fashion culture. It's not that kanye's that good, it's that its all a crock of dogfood with high end price tags and people who won't say anything trying to fit in for access to the wealthy.

viscanti 4y ago

> "Rising against adversity" is not the story I'd be be using here so much as just a typical strongman bravado leading to an absolute disconnect from reality. It's not really a story of rising against adversity though. It's that people who have a lot of success doing something have trouble turning around and doing the opposite. There seems to be a human tendency to double down on what people think got them their success.

davewritescode 4y ago

Early Kanye West brought a lot of attention to social issues through his music and was one of the first hip-hop artists to publicly advocate for acceptance of gay folks in hip-hop culture at a time when gay slurs were very common. His first album was downright wholesome as far as hip-hop and there's a reason he was so beloved. He's been on a long, slow, downward trajectory with his mental health since the death of his mother and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anybody looking out for him anymore. It's really sad to watch at this point. This is an interview from 2005 where Kanye defended gay people when it wasn't exactly popular. Trigger warning for gay slurs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp45-dQvqPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp45-dQvqPo

spywaregorilla 4y ago
I don't feel that's particularly incompatible with anything I said.
- dcow 4y ago
  GP is simply offering some context since you said you don't know Kanye at all and have only encountered him recently. It was never intended to be incompatible.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    Fair I guess. I'm not sure about the "recently" comment though. He's been making a ruckus for well over a decade now.
    - nwienert 4y ago
      He’s an artist, he’s supposed to be messy. But you also clearly have no idea who he is and what’s he’s stood for - the guy is single-handedly responsible for turning the tide on Gangster rap. Here’s one way to put it: No other man alive today is more responsible for changing negative to positive messages in popular music today. He’s literally one of the most thoughtful and revolutionary artists alive. But of course you’d have to have listened to his albums from the start and followed along with interviews not just reading all the headlines on Reddit or Twitter. And no, he hasn’t degraded. Ye, TLOP, Kids See Ghosts, Jesus is King are all massively successful unique pieces of art. It’s hard to compare him to anyone - MJ stayed within one genre, only really the Beatles maybe had as much diversity of novel styles. If you only pay attention to the media you’d have your opinion. It’s so out of wack with reality though. But that’s what we have all across this entire forsaken thread - a bunch of totally naive people who aren’t even 1% familiar with his corpus of work or history calling him sick and worse.
tmpz22 4y ago
> one of the first hip-hop artists to publicly advocate for acceptance of gay folks in hip-hop culture That's interesting - I've listened to his music since the beginning and would've assumed the opposite based on his reaction to the South Park Fish Sticks episode. Is there a specific song/album/statement he made that shows support for the LGBT community? As he's turned deeply religious (supports mega churches) + conservative in recent years I'd further expect him to not support LGBT groups.

elmomle 4y ago

> I just wouldn't ever be in that situation That seems to me to be impossible to say with certainty.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Short of something fundamentally changing my personality, I'm absolutely certain that I would never do the things he does.
- sleepymoose 4y ago
  Almost as if his mental health (or lack thereof) has fundamentally changed his personality.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    His rise to fame is largely predicated on that personality and has been present for over a decade? Maybe it is a result of mental health issues. But then the premise of his success feels very different.
- Kranar 4y ago
  >Short of something fundamentally changing my personality, Something like... a mental illness?

qq66 4y ago

> Mostly I just know of him because he's a very public asshole. Much like his wife. By "his wife" do you mean his ex-wife Kim Kardashian? If so, in what ways is she an asshole?

fmdragon 4y ago
I believe that OP meant that his ex-wife HAS a very public asshole.
gardenhedge 4y ago
Pushing unrealistic beauty standards on to teens
knownastron 4y ago
I agree. Kim has her faults but I don't recall a time when she has been an asshole to anyone. I think this shows that the commenter is biased and doesn't have the full picture.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  I certainly do not. Though I was under the impression that her entire brand was showcased on a show where they went over the top being vain, petty, and brandishing the biggest ego's they could muster?
werber 4y ago
She's under investigation for a crypto scam, https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-183 https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-183 she's also long been criticized for cultural appropriation, https://time.com/6072750/kardashians-blackfishing-appropriation/ https://time.com/6072750/kardashians-blackfishing-appropriat...
- technotony 4y ago
  She settled with the SEC: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/kim-kardashian-settles-sec-charges-instagram-crypto-promotion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/kim-kardashian-settles-sec-c...

nemothekid 4y ago

>I would wager greatly that it's not that he's grown cynical to people saying he can't do something, but that he's become delusional from people telling him a genius. I've been wary of defending Kanye online lately, but Kanye's influence isn't just "rap / hip hop". Kanye also broke into luxury/high-end fashion quite unexpectedly where he was given the same sort of push back. It started with him interning at Fendi (when he already was one of the largest entertainers on the planet) alongside a group of other eclectic individuals (the other most notable one, Virgil Abloh, who would go on to become creative director of Louis Vuitton). He captured lightning twice and I can't imagine that developing into a personality into anything other than "everyone else is wrong". That said, I don't think he's become delusional from people telling him he's a "genius", or from mental illness. Since 2020, I've seen scores of people all fall into the internet misinformation pipeline and I don't think Kanye is any different - he just has the largest platform. He's no more mentally ill than your uncle who believed COVID was a hoax. Everything he is saying is currently "mainstream" conservative ideology, his talking points are lifted directly from Candace Owens who is employed by The Daily Wire, which is run by the most famous conservative personality, Ben Shapiro, (maybe after Tucker Carlson).

sanderjd 4y ago
I think Kanye actually is more mentally ill than our misguided uncles. I believe he has even spoken about his struggles with it during more lucid times.
cwkoss 4y ago
I think you're significantly overstating his impact on the fashion world.
LegitShady 4y ago
>Kanye also broke into luxury/high-end fashion the secret here is that the emperor has no clothes, and Kanye's fashion garbage is equally as garbage as the rest of the high end fashion culture. It's not that kanye's that good, it's that its all a crock of dogfood with high end price tags and people who won't say anything trying to fit in for access to the wealthy.