4 ms·

> (Also, the question of whether or not to make PR a state comes up periodically, and PR sides against it.) All 3 referenda in PR since 2010 have favored state

> (Also, the question of whether or not to make PR a state comes up periodically, and PR sides against it.) All 3 referenda in PR since 2010 have favored statehood.

whatshisface 4y ago
Interesting, I guess my information was out of date.
colatkinson 4y ago
Notably many anti-statehood groups boycotted these plebiscites, and analysts noted that the questions were poorly structured. For example, the 2017 referendum had a result of 97% in favor of statehood... because only pro-statehood voters showed up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_movement_in_Puerto_Rico#2012_status_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_movement_in_Puert...
- sergiomattei 4y ago
  They were boycotted because they were sham, non-binding referendums. There was never an effort from the mainland to introduce this into Congress seriously. Therefore. Since nobody in Congress or White House lifts a finger, the referendum becomes just another political rally cry for the local pro-statehood party. The United States and their political class have made it exceedingly clear that they favour the status quo -- both economically and politically -- at the expense of the island folk who suffer increasing austerity cuts and a deteriorating standard of living.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > was never an effort from the mainland to introduce this into Congress seriously Statehood and its benefits isn’t something to be unilaterally demanded. Puerto Rico should have the option to declare independence. But it’s far too corrupt for political integration.
    - soulofmischief 4y ago
      I find it exceedingly impossible that Puerto Rico is more corrupt than my home state of Louisiana.
    - sergiomattei 4y ago
      I wholly understand your point, but there's a huge power imbalance here. We can run all the referendums we want. The US government has the full might of the US military, a reluctant political class and an economic interest in keeping the status quo. There has to be cooperation in both sides for either statehood or independence, if decolonization is to be achieved peacefully. Sadly, there's no will to negotiate from the US gov’t. About corruption, well, it’s true. Our ex-governor was recently indicted. However, I also find corruption allegations a convenient way to perpetuate this image of Puerto Ricans as freeloaders—completely missing how much the mainland benefits from us economically, both as a tax haven and as a source of tax revenue (no IRS federal tax, but Jones Act import restrictions). For more on economic benefits, think about this: a market of 2-3 million people locked in exclusively into US goods and markets due to colonial import restrictions. Taxation without representation.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        I thought Puerto Rico residents with income sourced from Puerto Rico didn’t have to file (or pay) US income tax. Is that mistaken?
        sergiomattei 4y ago
        That's correct! But federal income tax isn't the only way to get taxed. 1) All goods sold in PR have to pass by mainland US ports, raising living costs significantly. This means re-boarding into a US vessel on the mainland, then sailing to PR if coming internationally. 2) We pay other federal taxes (as freelancer, I pay social security tax among others). 3) Related to #1, customs taxes and levies on all goods transported, paid to the US Treasury. This is an excellent overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
    - 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

> (Also, the question of whether or not to make PR a state comes up periodically, and PR sides against it.) All 3 referenda in PR since 2010 have favored statehood.

whatshisface 4y ago

Interesting, I guess my information was out of date.

colatkinson 4y ago

Notably many anti-statehood groups boycotted these plebiscites, and analysts noted that the questions were poorly structured. For example, the 2017 referendum had a result of 97% in favor of statehood... because only pro-statehood voters showed up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_movement_in_Puerto_Rico#2012_status_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_movement_in_Puert...

sergiomattei 4y ago
They were boycotted because they were sham, non-binding referendums. There was never an effort from the mainland to introduce this into Congress seriously. Therefore. Since nobody in Congress or White House lifts a finger, the referendum becomes just another political rally cry for the local pro-statehood party. The United States and their political class have made it exceedingly clear that they favour the status quo -- both economically and politically -- at the expense of the island folk who suffer increasing austerity cuts and a deteriorating standard of living.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > was never an effort from the mainland to introduce this into Congress seriously Statehood and its benefits isn’t something to be unilaterally demanded. Puerto Rico should have the option to declare independence. But it’s far too corrupt for political integration.
  - soulofmischief 4y ago
    I find it exceedingly impossible that Puerto Rico is more corrupt than my home state of Louisiana.
  - sergiomattei 4y ago
    I wholly understand your point, but there's a huge power imbalance here. We can run all the referendums we want. The US government has the full might of the US military, a reluctant political class and an economic interest in keeping the status quo. There has to be cooperation in both sides for either statehood or independence, if decolonization is to be achieved peacefully. Sadly, there's no will to negotiate from the US gov’t. About corruption, well, it’s true. Our ex-governor was recently indicted. However, I also find corruption allegations a convenient way to perpetuate this image of Puerto Ricans as freeloaders—completely missing how much the mainland benefits from us economically, both as a tax haven and as a source of tax revenue (no IRS federal tax, but Jones Act import restrictions). For more on economic benefits, think about this: a market of 2-3 million people locked in exclusively into US goods and markets due to colonial import restrictions. Taxation without representation.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I thought Puerto Rico residents with income sourced from Puerto Rico didn’t have to file (or pay) US income tax. Is that mistaken?
      - sergiomattei 4y ago
        That's correct! But federal income tax isn't the only way to get taxed. 1) All goods sold in PR have to pass by mainland US ports, raising living costs significantly. This means re-boarding into a US vessel on the mainland, then sailing to PR if coming internationally. 2) We pay other federal taxes (as freelancer, I pay social security tax among others). 3) Related to #1, customs taxes and levies on all goods transported, paid to the US Treasury. This is an excellent overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
  - 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]