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A friend of mine recently had some money stolen from his Paypal account. The long and short is that someone was sat outside his house connected to his wireless

A friend of mine recently had some money stolen from his Paypal account. The long and short is that someone was sat outside his house connected to his wireless and were monitoring keystrokes somehow. I don't know the detailed story as they were telling me over a series of months and I lost track. Paypal would not release where his money had gone or even how to get it back and even went as far as suggesting his parents had stolen it from his account before finally releasing the money back into his account. This went on for months, it was all over a nominal £200 theft.

rmc 15y ago
connected to his wireless and were monitoring keystrokes somehow I highly doubt this story. That sort of technology per se is not possible. More likely someone used the same password on the email and or paypal account and it got out.
- chrislomax 15y ago
  The reason they came to this conclusion is because they said the transfer initiated from his IP address. It's the only possible conclusion I came to. And it is entirely possible, the was a story in the UK running warning people of open wireless networks. I know data between the client and Paypal is encrypted but it's the only conclusion I came to. Like I say, I only followed his issue in passing but that is the only way I could see it happening (without his parents actually stealing the money!)
  - klaruz 15y ago
    It is more likely that it was a trojan/virus. There are several out there that monitor for just banking/paypal/payroll details, once it has something good the operator can easily bounce through the machine it's controlling to move the money.
  - rmc 15y ago
    was a story in the UK running warning people of open wireless network There are stories in popular UK newspapers saying using facebook gives you cancer ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1149207/How-using-Facebook-raise-risk-cancer.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1149207/How-using-... ). Are you sure the warning open wireless wasn't that it'd give you cancer? ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168547/Wi-fi-networks-removed-schools-stop-children-getting-cancer-teachers-insist.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168547/Wi-fi-networ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456534/The-classroom-cancer-risk-wi-fi-internet.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456534/The-classroom... ) If you do any amount of tech support, you'll find users who will misremember, outright lie, or have silly ideas about computer security. A user could tell you that of course they never go to any of those website where you might get a virus, or that their computer is acting fine, and that's how they know they don't have a virus, or that of course they would never use the same password anywhere. All of these things make me doubt users.
    - chrislomax 15y ago
      No, it was report on the TV where they sat outside their house and monitored all purchases they were making. They then ran a report off and went to the persons door with the report. If you read further comments I admit a more feasible reason will probably be trojans.
- safeaim 15y ago
  How is that sort of technology not possible? Is it not possible to connect to a secured wireless network with enough effort, and then maybe perform a MITM attack? Maybe the user used the same password on sites not protected with SSL. Or the hacker maybe manipulated traffic at router-level etc. A far fetched scenario indeed, but not impossible. However I do agree with you that the most likely scenario was him being phished or exposed to a trojan.
  - chrislomax 15y ago
    A trojan might be a better answer, they said it initiated from his IP so it may have launched when he actually logged into Paypal himself. Might make more sense than the way I went about it
    - code_duck 15y ago
      If you're a criminal who wants to do something from someone's IP, what's easier - (a) drive to their house, hack their wifi, and sit outside or (b) install a trojan on their computer and remote control it I'm going to go for (b) personally. (a) would work, though!
      - chrislomax 15y ago
        Yes I agree, I wouldn't have come to the conclusion of option a originally if I had not watched a quite in-depth report on tv about it. It was quite unreal really how easy it was, they sat on a quiet suburb area, scanned for all the wireless networks and waiting for information to come in
        code_duck 15y ago
        All along, I've been hoping that the average person would start to take computers seriously and make an honest effort to learn what is going on with them... since the average person has started using computers throughout the day, unlike say, 1992. However, this has not happened and indeed, people are pleased to obliviously broadcast their personal details across their neighborhood without even considering 'if I can pick this up, can my neighbor next door listen in?'. They'd probably figure it out if it was just a radio, right? Security hazards of unsecured (or poorly secured, say WEP) wifi has been known for some time, of course. My current favorite is coffee shop that don't use AP isolation... nothing is more exciting than eavesdropping on students doing their nursing homework.

rmc 15y ago

connected to his wireless and were monitoring keystrokes somehow I highly doubt this story. That sort of technology per se is not possible. More likely someone used the same password on the email and or paypal account and it got out.

chrislomax 15y ago
The reason they came to this conclusion is because they said the transfer initiated from his IP address. It's the only possible conclusion I came to. And it is entirely possible, the was a story in the UK running warning people of open wireless networks. I know data between the client and Paypal is encrypted but it's the only conclusion I came to. Like I say, I only followed his issue in passing but that is the only way I could see it happening (without his parents actually stealing the money!)
- klaruz 15y ago
  It is more likely that it was a trojan/virus. There are several out there that monitor for just banking/paypal/payroll details, once it has something good the operator can easily bounce through the machine it's controlling to move the money.
- rmc 15y ago
  was a story in the UK running warning people of open wireless network There are stories in popular UK newspapers saying using facebook gives you cancer ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1149207/How-using-Facebook-raise-risk-cancer.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1149207/How-using-... ). Are you sure the warning open wireless wasn't that it'd give you cancer? ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168547/Wi-fi-networks-removed-schools-stop-children-getting-cancer-teachers-insist.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168547/Wi-fi-networ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456534/The-classroom-cancer-risk-wi-fi-internet.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-456534/The-classroom... ) If you do any amount of tech support, you'll find users who will misremember, outright lie, or have silly ideas about computer security. A user could tell you that of course they never go to any of those website where you might get a virus, or that their computer is acting fine, and that's how they know they don't have a virus, or that of course they would never use the same password anywhere. All of these things make me doubt users.
  - chrislomax 15y ago
    No, it was report on the TV where they sat outside their house and monitored all purchases they were making. They then ran a report off and went to the persons door with the report. If you read further comments I admit a more feasible reason will probably be trojans.
safeaim 15y ago
How is that sort of technology not possible? Is it not possible to connect to a secured wireless network with enough effort, and then maybe perform a MITM attack? Maybe the user used the same password on sites not protected with SSL. Or the hacker maybe manipulated traffic at router-level etc. A far fetched scenario indeed, but not impossible. However I do agree with you that the most likely scenario was him being phished or exposed to a trojan.
- chrislomax 15y ago
  A trojan might be a better answer, they said it initiated from his IP so it may have launched when he actually logged into Paypal himself. Might make more sense than the way I went about it
  - code_duck 15y ago
    If you're a criminal who wants to do something from someone's IP, what's easier - (a) drive to their house, hack their wifi, and sit outside or (b) install a trojan on their computer and remote control it I'm going to go for (b) personally. (a) would work, though!
    - chrislomax 15y ago
      Yes I agree, I wouldn't have come to the conclusion of option a originally if I had not watched a quite in-depth report on tv about it. It was quite unreal really how easy it was, they sat on a quiet suburb area, scanned for all the wireless networks and waiting for information to come in
      - code_duck 15y ago
        All along, I've been hoping that the average person would start to take computers seriously and make an honest effort to learn what is going on with them... since the average person has started using computers throughout the day, unlike say, 1992. However, this has not happened and indeed, people are pleased to obliviously broadcast their personal details across their neighborhood without even considering 'if I can pick this up, can my neighbor next door listen in?'. They'd probably figure it out if it was just a radio, right? Security hazards of unsecured (or poorly secured, say WEP) wifi has been known for some time, of course. My current favorite is coffee shop that don't use AP isolation... nothing is more exciting than eavesdropping on students doing their nursing homework.