5 ms·

Puertoricans are American citizens by name only - they can’t vote, for example. It’s a colony, and US treats it as such - it doesn’t enjoy the privileges of ac

by trasz 4y ago

Puertoricans are American citizens by name only - they can’t vote, for example. It’s a colony, and US treats it as such - it doesn’t enjoy the privileges of actual US territory. If you want to help, becoming a proper, independent country could be a good start. The majority of citizens opposes the current colonial status, as evidenced by several referendums, but, well, it’s not theirs to decide - because they are just a colony and aren’t allowed to vote.

Art9681 4y ago
Puertoricans wear the same uniform and fight in the same wars as all Americans so that folks can continue to say ignorant stuff like the comment above. My great grandfather did it. My grandfather. I did it. And I’m sure the tradition will continue. From Title 8-ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12-IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER III-NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION Part I-Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after April 11, 1899, and prior to January 13, 1941, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, residing on January 13, 1941, in Puerto Rico or other territory over which the United States exercises rights of sovereignty and not citizens of the United States under any other Act, are declared to be citizens of the United States as of January 13, 1941. All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, are citizens of the United States at birth.
- sophacles 4y ago
  Yes, they get to die for the USA. But they don't get a say like real citizens - no congressmen, no electoral votes, no senators. They do get to pay taxes though. Before you rant about how that's not important, I'd like to remind you of a certain group of English citizens who didn't have representation but were allowed to die and pay taxes for England.
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    Was I not a citizen until I was first able to vote for federal representation at the age of 25 after moving out of my hometown of DC?
    - sophacles 4y ago
      Yes. Real is probably the wrong term here, but certainly a citizen without the full suite of rights granted to you. If you have all the obligations without all the rights, you are a second class citizen. It's frankly absurd that someone can live within the US as a "citizen" without getting have meaningful representation.
      - gambiting 4y ago
        That's a weird argument. By the same logic current and former convicts are not citizens either.
        dr-detroit 4y ago
        nameless912 4y ago
        In the strictest sense of the word they _are_, but they lose a significant portion of their rights as citizens, even after serving their mandated sentence and "paying their debt to society" or whatever. I would actually argue that ex-cons aren't citizens in the practical sense specifically because they lose out on a bunch of rights they could freely exercise before their conviction. And before we get into a debate about whether ex-cons "deserve" rights, their sentence is supposed to be them paying their debt to society. Why shouldn't their rights be restored after that?
        sophacles 4y ago
        Well no - convicts are being punished for breaking the law. People born, raised and still living in DC, Puerto Rico, US virgin islands, Guam, and Marianas are being punished for not breaking the law.
        gambiting 4y ago
        That's a different argument though. Punished or not, they are still citizens - so clearly whether you can or cannot vote doesn't change your citizenship.
- philistine 4y ago
  It's not that the people of Puerto Ricans are lesser americans. It's that Puerto Rico itself as an institution has less rights. If a Puerto Rican moves to Alabama, they get the same rights and privileges, like voting, as anybody else.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
boredumb 4y ago
NOT a colony.... we're a territory. If you think puerto rico becoming it's own country and missing out on the aid, support and ease of travel provided by the federal government you are either malevolent or naive. Puerto Rican residents can vote on everything aside from federal elections.
- killerdhmo 4y ago
  "Vote on everything aside federal elections" - what precisely did you think this means? We can't vote for the president, our elected officials to Congress can't vote on the laws that are passed. What "voting" can we do, other than yes, local elections?
- trasz 4y ago
  Yukon is a territory. Here, the "territory" is just a pretty name for a colony. You can't vote, US constitution doesn't quite apply, you're getting peanuts from federal aid, and when there's a humanitarian catastrophe you're left for a month without electricity - but you are very welcomed in armed forces, because you're competent and when you die it doesn't matter to decision makers, because you can't vote. In short - you pay the price, but you don't get the benefits. How's that different from a colony? And yeah, becoming a US state would be better than independence, but it won't happen, because - you guessed it, you can't vote. By becoming an independent country you could get major powers to compete to do business with you - I'm pretty sure China would invest billions into your infrastructure, you could literally become America's Taiwan.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    > You can't [...] you're getting peanuts [...] you can't vote It kinda feels like you're trying to shame Puerto Ricans for being the USA's bitches or something but I don't think that's reasonable. Puerto Ricans are US citizens and can move anywhere in the USA which is not only valuable and lets them send money home but shows that they're respected as just other Americans. > By becoming an independent country you could get major powers to compete to do business with you - I'm pretty sure China would invest billions into your infrastructure, you could literally become America's Taiwan. Leave the one country that helps you, though maybe not enough, to be the puppet of their enemy. Like that's not going to end in pain, but that's not your concern as an outsider trying to accelerate chaos.
afiori 4y ago
The US does not grant the states a right to become independent countries either.
sergiomattei 4y ago
> Puertoricans are American citizens by name only - they can’t vote, for example. The veterans who died for the continental US beg to differ. > If you want to help, becoming a proper, independent country could be a good start. The US government has the full might of the US military, a reluctant political class and an economic interest in keeping it that way. It's difficult -- whether you're pro-statehood or independence.
- trasz 4y ago
  > The veterans who died for the continental US beg to differ. Only if they skipped their history classes - dying for the empire is a standard part of being a colony.
thehappypm 4y ago
The arrangement of Puerto Rico being a territory was a strategic decision. PR independence has a long history, but ultimately the economic and military benefits of being US citizens ended up outweighing the desire for independence. Being a self governing territory won out as being a sort of best of both worlds.

by trasz 4y ago

Art9681 4y ago

Puertoricans wear the same uniform and fight in the same wars as all Americans so that folks can continue to say ignorant stuff like the comment above. My great grandfather did it. My grandfather. I did it. And I’m sure the tradition will continue. From Title 8-ALIENS AND NATIONALITY CHAPTER 12-IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY SUBCHAPTER III-NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION Part I-Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after April 11, 1899, and prior to January 13, 1941, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, residing on January 13, 1941, in Puerto Rico or other territory over which the United States exercises rights of sovereignty and not citizens of the United States under any other Act, are declared to be citizens of the United States as of January 13, 1941. All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, are citizens of the United States at birth.

sophacles 4y ago
Yes, they get to die for the USA. But they don't get a say like real citizens - no congressmen, no electoral votes, no senators. They do get to pay taxes though. Before you rant about how that's not important, I'd like to remind you of a certain group of English citizens who didn't have representation but were allowed to die and pay taxes for England.
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  Was I not a citizen until I was first able to vote for federal representation at the age of 25 after moving out of my hometown of DC?
  - sophacles 4y ago
    Yes. Real is probably the wrong term here, but certainly a citizen without the full suite of rights granted to you. If you have all the obligations without all the rights, you are a second class citizen. It's frankly absurd that someone can live within the US as a "citizen" without getting have meaningful representation.
    - gambiting 4y ago
      That's a weird argument. By the same logic current and former convicts are not citizens either.
      - dr-detroit 4y ago
      - nameless912 4y ago
        In the strictest sense of the word they _are_, but they lose a significant portion of their rights as citizens, even after serving their mandated sentence and "paying their debt to society" or whatever. I would actually argue that ex-cons aren't citizens in the practical sense specifically because they lose out on a bunch of rights they could freely exercise before their conviction. And before we get into a debate about whether ex-cons "deserve" rights, their sentence is supposed to be them paying their debt to society. Why shouldn't their rights be restored after that?
      - sophacles 4y ago
        Well no - convicts are being punished for breaking the law. People born, raised and still living in DC, Puerto Rico, US virgin islands, Guam, and Marianas are being punished for not breaking the law.
        gambiting 4y ago
        That's a different argument though. Punished or not, they are still citizens - so clearly whether you can or cannot vote doesn't change your citizenship.
philistine 4y ago
It's not that the people of Puerto Ricans are lesser americans. It's that Puerto Rico itself as an institution has less rights. If a Puerto Rican moves to Alabama, they get the same rights and privileges, like voting, as anybody else.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

boredumb 4y ago

NOT a colony.... we're a territory. If you think puerto rico becoming it's own country and missing out on the aid, support and ease of travel provided by the federal government you are either malevolent or naive. Puerto Rican residents can vote on everything aside from federal elections.

killerdhmo 4y ago
"Vote on everything aside federal elections" - what precisely did you think this means? We can't vote for the president, our elected officials to Congress can't vote on the laws that are passed. What "voting" can we do, other than yes, local elections?
trasz 4y ago
Yukon is a territory. Here, the "territory" is just a pretty name for a colony. You can't vote, US constitution doesn't quite apply, you're getting peanuts from federal aid, and when there's a humanitarian catastrophe you're left for a month without electricity - but you are very welcomed in armed forces, because you're competent and when you die it doesn't matter to decision makers, because you can't vote. In short - you pay the price, but you don't get the benefits. How's that different from a colony? And yeah, becoming a US state would be better than independence, but it won't happen, because - you guessed it, you can't vote. By becoming an independent country you could get major powers to compete to do business with you - I'm pretty sure China would invest billions into your infrastructure, you could literally become America's Taiwan.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  > You can't [...] you're getting peanuts [...] you can't vote It kinda feels like you're trying to shame Puerto Ricans for being the USA's bitches or something but I don't think that's reasonable. Puerto Ricans are US citizens and can move anywhere in the USA which is not only valuable and lets them send money home but shows that they're respected as just other Americans. > By becoming an independent country you could get major powers to compete to do business with you - I'm pretty sure China would invest billions into your infrastructure, you could literally become America's Taiwan. Leave the one country that helps you, though maybe not enough, to be the puppet of their enemy. Like that's not going to end in pain, but that's not your concern as an outsider trying to accelerate chaos.

afiori 4y ago

The US does not grant the states a right to become independent countries either.

sergiomattei 4y ago

> Puertoricans are American citizens by name only - they can’t vote, for example. The veterans who died for the continental US beg to differ. > If you want to help, becoming a proper, independent country could be a good start. The US government has the full might of the US military, a reluctant political class and an economic interest in keeping it that way. It's difficult -- whether you're pro-statehood or independence.

trasz 4y ago
> The veterans who died for the continental US beg to differ. Only if they skipped their history classes - dying for the empire is a standard part of being a colony.

thehappypm 4y ago

The arrangement of Puerto Rico being a territory was a strategic decision. PR independence has a long history, but ultimately the economic and military benefits of being US citizens ended up outweighing the desire for independence. Being a self governing territory won out as being a sort of best of both worlds.