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One must understand that "profit" isn't always as rosy as it may seem, and "loss" sometimes isn't as bad. A company can show a lot of profit, but digging deep y

One must understand that "profit" isn't always as rosy as it may seem, and "loss" sometimes isn't as bad. A company can show a lot of profit, but digging deep you'll realize that most of it is stuck in receivables. This wasn't really a bad year for Uber, they became Cash Flow Positive for the first time [1]. The reason for their loss was valuation decline of its stake in Didi and Grab [2]. > The loss was due almost entirely to revaluation of its stakes in Grab and Didi in Asia and autonomous driving technology enterprise Aurora in the United States, the earnings report said. [1]: https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/aftermarket/uber-turns-cash-flow-positive-for-the-first-time/93300552 https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/aftermarket/u... [2]: https://gadgets360.com/apps/news/uber-net-loss-q1-2022-usd-6-billion-grab-didi-aurora-2947840 https://gadgets360.com/apps/news/uber-net-loss-q1-2022-usd-6...

alexb_ 4y ago
As it turns out, if you ignore all of the ways it loses money, Uber makes money
- yywwbbn 4y ago
  Berkshire Hathaway suffered an 30+ billion loss just because Apple’s stock price declined. Neither company is losing money and both are highly cashflow positive.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Berkshire Hathaway has been incredibly profitable over its lifetime though. Uber has been incredibly unprofitable throughout its existence
    - yywwbbn 4y ago
      My point was that while they are suffering huge losses this year they are actually doing fine. Seems the situation is similar with Uber, just that they were unlucky to become cash flow positive at the same time the market went down significantly.
- malfist 4y ago
  Man, I wish I could go to the gas station and tell the attendant I'm going to pay them what gas should be worth if you ignore all the shenanigans in the middle east.
  - lazide 4y ago
    Uber, as much as I dislike them, seems to be cash flow positive. So it’s more like ‘well shit, my stocks are tanking but I got a raise at work that more than offsets any cost of living increases’. No problems paying for gas, but year over year balance sheet is all in the red.
- CSMastermind 4y ago
  If I understand OP correctly then Uber is in fact making money, they just have some depreciating assets on their books. It's like if your net wealth went down this year because your 401k declined. That doesn't mean that you're broke or even poorly managing your finances. You can have a positive cash flow (budgeting and living within your means) while still having your overall net worth decrease.
- _ea1k 4y ago
  Its more like, ignoring the fact that they took in more $$ in revenue than they spent in expenses, they lost money. Cash flow positive is an important milestone. Whether its sustainable is the real question.
- graeme 4y ago
  You’re mixing up stocks and flows. Uber had the equivalent of a worker in the following situation: * their salary goes up. They can now cover all of their living expenses + save * the value of their stock portfolio goes down Are they poorer? Yes, on paper. But they aren’t losing money, defined as their living expenses costing more than their salary. In terms of salary vs. expenses they are doin great Buffett has long decried measuring business performance based on fluctuations in value of holdings
edf13 4y ago
Which makes this "live counter" pointless - as it is purely counting as if the losses are continuing at the same rate as the last n quarters
mamonster 4y ago
The key caveat of their cash flow positivity though is stock-based compensation. It's a very complicated debate about how much one should actually care, but as an investor in equity the company being cash positive (on the basis of operating activities) due to dilution(because that is what stock-based comps entails) isn't cool. Pulling the numbers from Bloomberg for Q2 2022: Cash from ops 439, stock-based comp 470.

alexb_ 4y ago

As it turns out, if you ignore all of the ways it loses money, Uber makes money

yywwbbn 4y ago
Berkshire Hathaway suffered an 30+ billion loss just because Apple’s stock price declined. Neither company is losing money and both are highly cashflow positive.
- smcl 4y ago
  Berkshire Hathaway has been incredibly profitable over its lifetime though. Uber has been incredibly unprofitable throughout its existence
  - yywwbbn 4y ago
    My point was that while they are suffering huge losses this year they are actually doing fine. Seems the situation is similar with Uber, just that they were unlucky to become cash flow positive at the same time the market went down significantly.
malfist 4y ago
Man, I wish I could go to the gas station and tell the attendant I'm going to pay them what gas should be worth if you ignore all the shenanigans in the middle east.
- lazide 4y ago
  Uber, as much as I dislike them, seems to be cash flow positive. So it’s more like ‘well shit, my stocks are tanking but I got a raise at work that more than offsets any cost of living increases’. No problems paying for gas, but year over year balance sheet is all in the red.
CSMastermind 4y ago
If I understand OP correctly then Uber is in fact making money, they just have some depreciating assets on their books. It's like if your net wealth went down this year because your 401k declined. That doesn't mean that you're broke or even poorly managing your finances. You can have a positive cash flow (budgeting and living within your means) while still having your overall net worth decrease.
_ea1k 4y ago
Its more like, ignoring the fact that they took in more $$ in revenue than they spent in expenses, they lost money. Cash flow positive is an important milestone. Whether its sustainable is the real question.
graeme 4y ago
You’re mixing up stocks and flows. Uber had the equivalent of a worker in the following situation: * their salary goes up. They can now cover all of their living expenses + save * the value of their stock portfolio goes down Are they poorer? Yes, on paper. But they aren’t losing money, defined as their living expenses costing more than their salary. In terms of salary vs. expenses they are doin great Buffett has long decried measuring business performance based on fluctuations in value of holdings

edf13 4y ago

Which makes this "live counter" pointless - as it is purely counting as if the losses are continuing at the same rate as the last n quarters

mamonster 4y ago

The key caveat of their cash flow positivity though is stock-based compensation. It's a very complicated debate about how much one should actually care, but as an investor in equity the company being cash positive (on the basis of operating activities) due to dilution(because that is what stock-based comps entails) isn't cool. Pulling the numbers from Bloomberg for Q2 2022: Cash from ops 439, stock-based comp 470.