3 ms·

This sort of thing should be flagrantly illegal. It's exploitation of the worst sort: "Keep working for us, accept our terrible conditions, or we'll charge you

This sort of thing should be flagrantly illegal. It's exploitation of the worst sort: "Keep working for us, accept our terrible conditions, or we'll charge you a significant fraction of what you would have been making for the year." It's basically an attempt to turn regular employment into indentured servitude.

Proven 4y ago
Nonsense. As always, prospective employees can refuse bad offers. Getting training without any up front payment is great for least privileged and those without education.
refurb 4y ago
I've never worked a professional job that didn't have some sort of recapture of hiring expenses if you left early. It may not be training, but moving costs, signing bonus (usually linked to getting set up after a move), equity grants. It was clearly stated in the hiring contract. I was more than welcome to not take the job if I didn't feel like I could meet the obligations.
- danaris 4y ago
  > I was more than welcome to not take the job if I didn't feel like I could meet the obligations. Not everyone has this privilege. For too many people, if they get a job offer and don't take it, that means they don't eat that week. Remember, friends, market solutions only work in an idealized free market, which requires the buyer to be under no pressure, information to be perfect, and alternatives that are just as good without the negative aspect under question to be available without significant extra costs.
  - refurb 4y ago
    I've worked plenty of minimum wage jobs. At least 4 by my count. Finding one wasn't that hard, because, well, they are minimum wage. I most certainly judge the job by the offer - if I didn't like the manager, location, work conditions, I kept looking.
    - slothtrop 4y ago
      Going from a tech job to minimum likely wouldn't cover one's current expenses. Unless you live with your parents. What's the refrain from the right again? Oh, that minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be a living wage.
      - refurb 4y ago
        I'm confused, I'm talking about before I ever had a good job. I worked a few minimum wage jobs, got a few small raises, then jumped ship for more money a few times. I was living paycheck to paycheck, but it was manageable.
      - randomdata 4y ago
        > Going from a tech job to minimum likely wouldn't cover one's current expenses. Unless you were foolish you would likely be okay. Your previously high wage would have allowed you to acquire the things that low-wage workers have little choice but to continually pay for. Housing being a prime example. When all you are paying is property taxes and some incidental maintenance costs your cost of living can be tremendously lower than someone who is paying rent. Life is a lot cheaper when you are rich.
        slothtrop 4y ago
        > When all you are paying is property taxes and some incidental maintenance costs your cost of living can be tremendously lower than someone who is paying rent. You conspicuously left out mortgage. Life insurance. Provisions for the family. Vehicle payment. etc.
        randomdata 4y ago
        > You conspicuously left out mortgage. Mortgage is rent – the rental of money. This was explicitly mentioned. However, having a high paying job for a reasonable amount of time means that being left with a mortgage is unnecessary. Being able to avoid rent allows for a tremendous reduction in cost of living. If you blew it all on hookers and blow instead of setting yourself up while in your favourable position, I guess you are out of luck, but the foolish scenario was already addressed. > Life insurance. Provisions for the family. Vehicle payment. etc. None of those are related to the housing example, so they wouldn't be applicable. They are applicable more generally, of course, but not within context. But all those too are much cheaper when you are rich. If you have the capability to front load food purchases in bulk, for example, they can be purchased for much less (not only the immediate cost, but also against inflation), reducing your cost of living. It is amazing how cheaply one can actually live when they are rich. Very different to when one is poor.

Proven 4y ago

Nonsense. As always, prospective employees can refuse bad offers. Getting training without any up front payment is great for least privileged and those without education.

refurb 4y ago

I've never worked a professional job that didn't have some sort of recapture of hiring expenses if you left early. It may not be training, but moving costs, signing bonus (usually linked to getting set up after a move), equity grants. It was clearly stated in the hiring contract. I was more than welcome to not take the job if I didn't feel like I could meet the obligations.

danaris 4y ago
> I was more than welcome to not take the job if I didn't feel like I could meet the obligations. Not everyone has this privilege. For too many people, if they get a job offer and don't take it, that means they don't eat that week. Remember, friends, market solutions only work in an idealized free market, which requires the buyer to be under no pressure, information to be perfect, and alternatives that are just as good without the negative aspect under question to be available without significant extra costs.
- refurb 4y ago
  I've worked plenty of minimum wage jobs. At least 4 by my count. Finding one wasn't that hard, because, well, they are minimum wage. I most certainly judge the job by the offer - if I didn't like the manager, location, work conditions, I kept looking.
  - slothtrop 4y ago
    Going from a tech job to minimum likely wouldn't cover one's current expenses. Unless you live with your parents. What's the refrain from the right again? Oh, that minimum wage jobs aren't meant to be a living wage.
    - refurb 4y ago
      I'm confused, I'm talking about before I ever had a good job. I worked a few minimum wage jobs, got a few small raises, then jumped ship for more money a few times. I was living paycheck to paycheck, but it was manageable.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > Going from a tech job to minimum likely wouldn't cover one's current expenses. Unless you were foolish you would likely be okay. Your previously high wage would have allowed you to acquire the things that low-wage workers have little choice but to continually pay for. Housing being a prime example. When all you are paying is property taxes and some incidental maintenance costs your cost of living can be tremendously lower than someone who is paying rent. Life is a lot cheaper when you are rich.
      - slothtrop 4y ago
        > When all you are paying is property taxes and some incidental maintenance costs your cost of living can be tremendously lower than someone who is paying rent. You conspicuously left out mortgage. Life insurance. Provisions for the family. Vehicle payment. etc.
        randomdata 4y ago
        > You conspicuously left out mortgage. Mortgage is rent – the rental of money. This was explicitly mentioned. However, having a high paying job for a reasonable amount of time means that being left with a mortgage is unnecessary. Being able to avoid rent allows for a tremendous reduction in cost of living. If you blew it all on hookers and blow instead of setting yourself up while in your favourable position, I guess you are out of luck, but the foolish scenario was already addressed. > Life insurance. Provisions for the family. Vehicle payment. etc. None of those are related to the housing example, so they wouldn't be applicable. They are applicable more generally, of course, but not within context. But all those too are much cheaper when you are rich. If you have the capability to front load food purchases in bulk, for example, they can be purchased for much less (not only the immediate cost, but also against inflation), reducing your cost of living. It is amazing how cheaply one can actually live when they are rich. Very different to when one is poor.