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> Russia withdrew its regular army months ago Strange. As far as rest of the world knows, Ukraine fought a spectacular counteroffensive against Russia's elite

by mopsi 4y ago

> Russia withdrew its regular army months ago Strange. As far as rest of the world knows, Ukraine fought a spectacular counteroffensive against Russia's elite tank division (4th Guards) near Izyum just a few weeks ago, took many of them prisoners and captured 100 or so of their best tanks and hundreds of APCs.

trasz 4y ago
- aa-jv 4y ago
  >clueless tankie. Keep your hate-filled agit-prop to yourself and try to stay rational. I'm not rooting for Russia - I'm trying to indicate you are in danger of mis-underestimating your enemy - a fatal mistake to make! I'm not mentioning "terrorist attacks on Russian state" because I agree that thats what they are - I am 100% anti-war, no matter who is fighting it - but that is what Russia's democratic process requires in order to authorize an escalation of its "special military operation" to a broader war-fighting stance. In precisely the same way that the USA needed terrorist attacks to justify its own special military operations around the world, Russia has the very same condition in its own democratic processes - and whether you like it or not, Russia is just as democratic as the USA - they just don't vote for people you like. Whether you agree or not, Russia has not applied the full forces of its military to this "special operation" - this will happen in the next few weeks, now that the political conditions within Russia are in place to authorize the use of such force. You don't really think Putin can just dictate that a war happen - just like the USA, Putins' power is limited by democratic processes. Know Your Enemy! Putins' hands have been tied thus far - once the gloves come off, you might change your mind about Russia's weaknesses ...
  - mcv 4y ago
    You say they haven't applied the full force of its military, but considering how spent the Russian forces are, it's not at all clear that Russia really has significantly more forces that can be used. Other than nukes, of course. > Putins' power is limited by democratic processes. The processes in Russia aren't very democratic, considering the way Putin controls the media and locks up the opposition. But you're right that his power isn't absolute; no power ever is. If too many Russians rebel against him, his security apparatus won't save him. On top of that, he needs to keep the support of the military, Wagner, the nationalist, and various other groups, and if he loses that support, he's also lost. So he has to be careful and ensure he keeps sufficient domestic justification for what he does.
    - aa-jv 4y ago
      >how spent the Russian forces are How spent are the Russian forces? They haven't even applied 15% of their full forces to this operation, Western agitprop notwithstanding. >The processes in Russia aren't very democratic, considering the way Putin controls the media and locks up the opposition. At least as democratic as the West. He has not had the power he needs to field a full war-fighting force - only "special military operations" capabilities. The longer this war goes on, the more justification ("Ma' Terrorists!") he has to pull off the gloves. 3 weeks from now, we will see what that looks like. I'd wager its going to be a much different scenario than the current "special military operation". (NOTE: I am not pro-Russia - I am 100% anti-war.. ALL war, including our own heinous drone attacks on civilians...)
      - brokenmachine 4y ago
        That post is the wrongest thing I've read this week. It's so wrong I don't know where to start. We shall see in three weeks who is correct. When the gloves come off, lol. The pants have already fallen down... might as well take the gloves off too.
      - trasz 4y ago
        >How spent are the Russian forces? They haven't even applied 15% of their full forces to this operation This is in stark contrast to what analysts are saying, which is that Russia already _lost_ about half of its military. Visually confirmed losses of Russian tanks alone are over one thousand units. Russians are so desperate they had to introduce mandatory conscription, despite it being a suicide from political point of view. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, and you hadn’t provided a single source that would support your view. >as democratic as West Lol, no. Russia isn’t even a dysfunctional democracy; it lacks basic prerequisites to become one. You’re probably imagining Russia is kind of like Eastern Europe, only poorer. It’s not - the "cultural distance” between Russia and, say, Poland is much greater then between Poland and, say, UK.
        aa-jv 4y ago
        Analysts - on TV - are telling you what to think: because its their job to spread propaganda and make the general public think what is necessary for the Pentagon to get its wishes. Make the effort to get past the propaganda wall and you will see a much different picture. Paul Stephan agreed that there is a distinction between democracy and liberalism in Russia: "Russia enjoys robust democratic institutions at least as vigorous as Japan, Korea, Italy, France, and Germany." https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/putin-and-the-russian-tradition-illiberal-democratic https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/putin-and-the-russi...
aa-jv 4y ago
That was hardly a decisive victory, and Russia has not applied the full forces of its military in this "operation" - yet. Its a "special military operation", meaning Putin is limited as to what he can order into the field. Now that he has the justification of "terrorist attacks on Russia", he can escalate - and this is precisely what is about to happen. When the ground freezes in Ukraine, an even more lethal Russian force will be applied to what is now more of a war and less of a 'special operation'. Me saying this does not mean I agree with it - I find all of it heinous. But those of you addicted to your Western propaganda need to understand that it is very, very dangerous to suck up your own agitprop and consider it the one Holy Truth™. You'd be a lot wiser if you actually paid attention to what Russia, itself, has to say about the situation - not that you can, given the censorship regime being imposed on you by your own military, alas...
- mopsi 4y ago
  > That was hardly a decisive victory Of course it was, Kupiansk is a very important railway junction[1] and the whole front collapsed after it was captured. Speed of the operation was nothing short of amazing. In mere days Ukraine liberated more than Russia had captured in months of heavy fighting with insane losses, worst since WW2. In large parts of Ukraine's northeast, Russia was pushed back to state border and there is virtually no fighting anymore beyond sporadic Russian revenge attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure. This is dictionary definition of a decisive victory. Russian forces have left the Sumy-Kharkiv region and the fighting over Ukraine's north-east has finished. [1] https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.net/Pictures/web/c/e/b/ukrainemoldova_584086.svgz https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.net/Pictures/web/c/e/b/ukr... > and Russia has not applied the full forces of its military in this "operation" - yet. Why are police officers dragging pilots from airliner cockpits[2] and sending as cannon fodder to the frontlines if there is no desperate shortage of manpower? Why is Putin's right-hand man touring prisons to recruit rapists and murderers?[3] The clock is ticking on Kherson and it is only a question of time when Ukraine will liberate it, Ukraine already conducted a successful limited operation and liberated a lot of ground north of Kherson. Why isn't the "full force" brought in to stop the humiliating series of defeats? [2] https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1580907603101896704 https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1580907603101896704 [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruits-inmates-ukraine-war-wagner-prigozhin https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruit... > You'd be a lot wiser if you actually paid attention to what Russia, itself, has to say about the situation - not that you can, given the censorship regime being imposed on you by your own military, alas... I don't think even Russian MoD claims that there is no Russian regular army in Ukraine. Who told you that?

by mopsi 4y ago

trasz 4y ago

aa-jv 4y ago
>clueless tankie. Keep your hate-filled agit-prop to yourself and try to stay rational. I'm not rooting for Russia - I'm trying to indicate you are in danger of mis-underestimating your enemy - a fatal mistake to make! I'm not mentioning "terrorist attacks on Russian state" because I agree that thats what they are - I am 100% anti-war, no matter who is fighting it - but that is what Russia's democratic process requires in order to authorize an escalation of its "special military operation" to a broader war-fighting stance. In precisely the same way that the USA needed terrorist attacks to justify its own special military operations around the world, Russia has the very same condition in its own democratic processes - and whether you like it or not, Russia is just as democratic as the USA - they just don't vote for people you like. Whether you agree or not, Russia has not applied the full forces of its military to this "special operation" - this will happen in the next few weeks, now that the political conditions within Russia are in place to authorize the use of such force. You don't really think Putin can just dictate that a war happen - just like the USA, Putins' power is limited by democratic processes. Know Your Enemy! Putins' hands have been tied thus far - once the gloves come off, you might change your mind about Russia's weaknesses ...
- mcv 4y ago
  You say they haven't applied the full force of its military, but considering how spent the Russian forces are, it's not at all clear that Russia really has significantly more forces that can be used. Other than nukes, of course. > Putins' power is limited by democratic processes. The processes in Russia aren't very democratic, considering the way Putin controls the media and locks up the opposition. But you're right that his power isn't absolute; no power ever is. If too many Russians rebel against him, his security apparatus won't save him. On top of that, he needs to keep the support of the military, Wagner, the nationalist, and various other groups, and if he loses that support, he's also lost. So he has to be careful and ensure he keeps sufficient domestic justification for what he does.
  - aa-jv 4y ago
    >how spent the Russian forces are How spent are the Russian forces? They haven't even applied 15% of their full forces to this operation, Western agitprop notwithstanding. >The processes in Russia aren't very democratic, considering the way Putin controls the media and locks up the opposition. At least as democratic as the West. He has not had the power he needs to field a full war-fighting force - only "special military operations" capabilities. The longer this war goes on, the more justification ("Ma' Terrorists!") he has to pull off the gloves. 3 weeks from now, we will see what that looks like. I'd wager its going to be a much different scenario than the current "special military operation". (NOTE: I am not pro-Russia - I am 100% anti-war.. ALL war, including our own heinous drone attacks on civilians...)
    - brokenmachine 4y ago
      That post is the wrongest thing I've read this week. It's so wrong I don't know where to start. We shall see in three weeks who is correct. When the gloves come off, lol. The pants have already fallen down... might as well take the gloves off too.
    - trasz 4y ago
      >How spent are the Russian forces? They haven't even applied 15% of their full forces to this operation This is in stark contrast to what analysts are saying, which is that Russia already _lost_ about half of its military. Visually confirmed losses of Russian tanks alone are over one thousand units. Russians are so desperate they had to introduce mandatory conscription, despite it being a suicide from political point of view. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs, and you hadn’t provided a single source that would support your view. >as democratic as West Lol, no. Russia isn’t even a dysfunctional democracy; it lacks basic prerequisites to become one. You’re probably imagining Russia is kind of like Eastern Europe, only poorer. It’s not - the "cultural distance” between Russia and, say, Poland is much greater then between Poland and, say, UK.
      - aa-jv 4y ago
        Analysts - on TV - are telling you what to think: because its their job to spread propaganda and make the general public think what is necessary for the Pentagon to get its wishes. Make the effort to get past the propaganda wall and you will see a much different picture. Paul Stephan agreed that there is a distinction between democracy and liberalism in Russia: "Russia enjoys robust democratic institutions at least as vigorous as Japan, Korea, Italy, France, and Germany." https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/putin-and-the-russian-tradition-illiberal-democratic https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/putin-and-the-russi...

aa-jv 4y ago

That was hardly a decisive victory, and Russia has not applied the full forces of its military in this "operation" - yet. Its a "special military operation", meaning Putin is limited as to what he can order into the field. Now that he has the justification of "terrorist attacks on Russia", he can escalate - and this is precisely what is about to happen. When the ground freezes in Ukraine, an even more lethal Russian force will be applied to what is now more of a war and less of a 'special operation'. Me saying this does not mean I agree with it - I find all of it heinous. But those of you addicted to your Western propaganda need to understand that it is very, very dangerous to suck up your own agitprop and consider it the one Holy Truth™. You'd be a lot wiser if you actually paid attention to what Russia, itself, has to say about the situation - not that you can, given the censorship regime being imposed on you by your own military, alas...

mopsi 4y ago
> That was hardly a decisive victory Of course it was, Kupiansk is a very important railway junction[1] and the whole front collapsed after it was captured. Speed of the operation was nothing short of amazing. In mere days Ukraine liberated more than Russia had captured in months of heavy fighting with insane losses, worst since WW2. In large parts of Ukraine's northeast, Russia was pushed back to state border and there is virtually no fighting anymore beyond sporadic Russian revenge attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure. This is dictionary definition of a decisive victory. Russian forces have left the Sumy-Kharkiv region and the fighting over Ukraine's north-east has finished. [1] https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.net/Pictures/web/c/e/b/ukrainemoldova_584086.svgz https://d1c4d7gnm6as1q.cloudfront.net/Pictures/web/c/e/b/ukr... > and Russia has not applied the full forces of its military in this "operation" - yet. Why are police officers dragging pilots from airliner cockpits[2] and sending as cannon fodder to the frontlines if there is no desperate shortage of manpower? Why is Putin's right-hand man touring prisons to recruit rapists and murderers?[3] The clock is ticking on Kherson and it is only a question of time when Ukraine will liberate it, Ukraine already conducted a successful limited operation and liberated a lot of ground north of Kherson. Why isn't the "full force" brought in to stop the humiliating series of defeats? [2] https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1580907603101896704 https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1580907603101896704 [3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruits-inmates-ukraine-war-wagner-prigozhin https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/russia-recruit... > You'd be a lot wiser if you actually paid attention to what Russia, itself, has to say about the situation - not that you can, given the censorship regime being imposed on you by your own military, alas... I don't think even Russian MoD claims that there is no Russian regular army in Ukraine. Who told you that?