7 ms·
I use the word "godlike" because of just the magnitude of the energies and timescales we're dealing with. Drawing analogies with contemporary technology and beh
by jonathankoren 4y ago
I use the word "godlike" because of just the magnitude of the energies and timescales we're dealing with. Drawing analogies with contemporary technology and behaviors really understate the magnitudes we're talking about.
Let's assume these aliens are dealing with just well understood Einsteinian physics. Nothing theoretical like wormholes, or thing. Their weapon of choice, is the same weapon of humans million years ago -- throwing big rocks.
Now, finding the mass of asteroids online is pretty difficult. It seems like most asteroids aren't actually measured, because the distribution of mass is highly skewed towards the Ceres, but two I'll look at are: 10 Hygiea, with 8.32E19 kg and 101955 Bennu (of OSIRIS-REx fame), at 7.329E10 kg.
Now we don't need to blow up the Earth Alderaan style. Instead, we'll aim for a Chicxulub impact, which apparently released something close to 4.2E23 J.
We'll also be pretty conservative about where aliens are, and assume they share our galaxy. This puts them at most around 100,000 light years away (the diameter of the Milky Way).
Let's say that we're accelerating our rock to 1% the speed of light. That means it would take 10 million years to hit your target. To put 10 million years into perspective, that's roughly how long ago chimpanzees and humans diverged. You're literally shooting at a species that probably won't exist, to protect your own species, that also probably won't exist.
Accelerating Bennu to 1% the speed of light would require 3.74E32 J and give an impact energy of 79x of Chicxulub. Hygiea at 1% would require 3.74E32 J be 900 million times the size of Chicxulub (8x the Great Impactor Event that birthed the moon). To put this in perspective, the Sun generates 3.8E26 J per second. You'd need to capture the entire output of the Sun for a day at 100% efficiency to accelerate Hygiea to 0.01c. Bennu takes a modest .0009 seconds of solar output.
10% the speed of light? 3.77E34 joules for Hygiea (9E10x Chicxulub) and 3.32E25 joules for Bennu (8x Chicxulub).
Just for giggles, 90% the speed of light gives 9.68E36 joules (800 years of solar output) to accelerate Hygia (2.3E13 Chicxulub, or 2 million times of the energy released by Great Impactor Event that formed the moon) and 8.52E27 joules (2.25 seconds of solar output) for Bennu (20000x Chicxulub). In this case, we'd be atomizing the planet in around just over 100,000 years.
On the other side, if we yeet these rocks at the speed of Voyager 1 (0.00005c, or 17000 m/s), it would take 2 billion years hit, and we'd get 20,000 Chicxulubs from Hygiea at the cost of 9.36E27 joules (2.5 seconds of solar output), and Bennu wouldn't even come close to Chicxulub, but rather a mere 4000 Tungustas at a cost of 8.25E18 joules.
If we want to cause 1 Chicxulub in 10 million years, we need to fire a mass of 1E11 kg, using 4.5E23 J of energy.
This is of course assuming that we're able to hit this planet without any course corrections. A planet mind you, we probably couldn't even theoretically image given the vast distances, infinitesimal angles, and the paucity of reflected photons that hit our telescopes. But hell, maybe we can develop some massive explosive or something that can last 6 million years to redirect our rock as we get closer to the system. The fact that we have to design an autonomous command and control system to last 10 million years in interstellar space is quite a lift, but let's just assume we get lucky.
Here's a spreadsheet of my work
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_W_mJ1ev1mkvZZMkwVlJHegPB7aMs8N7P2STBNAxV4U/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_W_mJ1ev1mkvZZMkwVlJ...
References
Wikipedia for masses and diameters
https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/relativistic-ke https://www.omnicalculator.com/physics/relativistic-ke
https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2012/04/13/collisions-in-the-interstellar-medium/ https://www.centauri-dreams.org/2012/04/13/collisions-in-the...
- lph 4y agoI admire your commitment to this discussion :) In the Three Body Trilogy, the hyper-advanced aliens use projectiles accelerated to very near the speed of light. The premise is that there's enough energy in these that their impact is an extinction-level event for the planet they hit. There's a fun thread on Quora[1] about so-called "relativistic kinetic kill vehicles", with the top comment making the good point that a small projectile moving very fast might just punch a clean hole in the planet and keep going, thus not transferring most of its energy. [1] https://www.quora.com/What-are-Relativistic-Kinetic-Kill-Vehicles-RKKVs?share=1 https://www.quora.com/What-are-Relativistic-Kinetic-Kill-Veh...
- jonathankoren 4y ago>I admire your commitment to this discussion :) Oh god. I made a fucking spreadsheet! @_@ I had been thinking about aliens, von Neumann probes, and even giant super computers to simulate the universe recently. I've come to the conclusion they're all absurdly dumb like a pulp scifi story. People always think these shots are one and done, but they’re not. You have to keep hitting the planets with extinction level events, and you have to do it before you detect a civilization simply because of the transit times. If for sake of argument, we assume the dinosaurs were murdered, how did that work out for the trisoleans? >There's a fun thread on Quora[1] about so-called "relativistic kinetic kill vehicles", with the top comment making the good point that a small projectile moving very fast might just punch a clean hole in the planet and keep going, thus not transferring most of its energy. I saw something similar about a microblackhole or strange matter or something like that. Basically, you wouldn't even notice unless you standing right under/over it. Then you'd have a bad time.