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This post is mostly about Bitcoin and Proof of Work. Currently "Web3" tech is being built on Ethereum, Proof of Stake, zero-knowledge proofs, rollup sequencers,

This post is mostly about Bitcoin and Proof of Work. Currently "Web3" tech is being built on Ethereum, Proof of Stake, zero-knowledge proofs, rollup sequencers, data availability sampling, and multi-party computation. The recent advances are not like the earliest iterations; a harsh critique of Bitcoin is not equivalent to the harsh critique of Web3. The post is riddled with fallacies. For example: > Imagine, for example, a world where you're out at a restaurant, or something, and you accidentally drop your keys. Someone else picks them up off the floor, only instead of handing them back to you, they now legally own your house and car. This framing is ridiculous and reveals either that the author has no idea what they are criticizing, or is being deliberately obtuse. Nobody in Web3 is suggesting you hold all of your assets in a single private key that you physically carry to a restaurant. The root of this blog post is this: > it's the sheer absence of any explanation or detail as to what problem [web3] advocates believe they are solving And this is the primary complaint. Web3 is too vague a term, and encompasses too many unrealistic hype ideas like houses-on-the-blockchain, and the author has not bothered to look further than these claims. Why not take aim at actual Web3 products that are live today: Uniswap, Aave, ENS. These all fit under the umbrella of Web3 and are able to secure billions of dollars worth of assets while meeting the promised goals: a set of trustless, permissionless, and decentralized tools for transferring and owning value on the internet.

bertman 4y ago
>while meeting the promised goals: a set of trustless, permissionless, and decentralized tools for transferring and owning value on the internet. I'm sorry, I know this isn't reddit, but: fucking lol. What do you even mean? What does "owning value on the internet" mean? This is exactly the kind of handwaving the article is about.
- zeroclip 4y ago
  “Value” in this context is a digital asset that is assigned to you and can be exchanged for some real world value. One example is PayPal. When you deposit fiat into a PayPal account, you get back an asset: a digital and virtual currency that PayPal holds custody over for you. Another example is a digital gift card, like a $50 voucher for Amazon. The key associated with this card holds value, and in some cases you can even gift and transfer this online. Another example is a domain name. If you own a valuable domain name like Meta.com, the asset isn’t “money” but it also isn’t worthless or valueless. Now take a DAI stablecoin, Aave position, or ENS domain. Very much the same as above assets, except that they align more closely with the three aforementioned properties: trustless, permissionless, and decentralized. In all of these cases we use the term “ownership” but the ownership of dollars in a PayPal account and ownership of DAI tokens in a wallet have very different properties.
  - bertman 4y ago
    >except that they align more closely with the three aforementioned properties: trustless, permissionless, and decentralized. But wouldn't you agree that the article is mainly about why "Web 3.0" has failed over and over again to provide exactly these properties, or to provide a valuable solution to a problem that hasn't been or could be solved in a better way already? Literally everything related to "Web 3.0" has been a snowbally scam, and yet, as another commenter in this thread put it aptly, "the "pull back" in hype has allowed a new breed of charlatans to pretend there is ever more legitimacy to this whole scam". It is, for me at least, impossible to take DAI stablecoins, AAVE positions or any other new kid on the block seriously.
    - zeroclip 4y ago
      The article focuses on Bitcoin, Proof of Work, hyped statements like houses-on-the-blockchain, and Ponzi schemes like Bitconnect, which is to say that it isn't focusing on any of today's Web3 tools or products, and especially is not focusing on the successful protocols coming out of Web3. If you or the author feels that Uniswap, DAI, ENS, and AAVE are scams, try to provide some rationale for this claim. Otherwise these sweeping statements are just as hollow as saying that SMPT is a Great Con based on the notion that 85% of today's circulating email is illegitimate.
dwgebler 4y ago
> Nobody in Web3 is suggesting you hold all of your assets in a single private key that you physically carry to a restaurant I'm not suggesting that, either. It's a metaphor. In the metaphor, we're not talking about crypto wallet keys, we're talking about actual, physical keys which open doors. But many people do of course keep all their crypto keys in a single, vulnerable location, or hand the contents of their wallets over to another wallet for some other purpose such as lending - typically this is on centralized exchanges or defi markets and platforms, for example Celsius - which I haven't checked in a while but can only assume is still in business, doing well and allowing customers to access their funds.
- zeroclip 4y ago
  You did suggest that, even concluding with “That's the world of cryptocurrency” to re-affirm the equivalency of the comparison. This framing is disingenuous. Crypto proponents do not suggest holding all assets in a single key and leaving it in a vulnerable location. It would be like suggesting that investing in fine art is futile because investors might accidentally drop their Picasso painting on the way to the restaurant. Many outspoken proponents advise against “CeFi” including centralized lending services like Celsius. Meanwhile with Aave, which is analogous to Celsius and is actually DeFi, the protocol is still doing fine and the users still have access to their funds. This goes against the general tone of your statements, and is an example of Web3 product that is actually continuing to demonstrate its effectiveness.

bertman 4y ago

>while meeting the promised goals: a set of trustless, permissionless, and decentralized tools for transferring and owning value on the internet. I'm sorry, I know this isn't reddit, but: fucking lol. What do you even mean? What does "owning value on the internet" mean? This is exactly the kind of handwaving the article is about.

zeroclip 4y ago
“Value” in this context is a digital asset that is assigned to you and can be exchanged for some real world value. One example is PayPal. When you deposit fiat into a PayPal account, you get back an asset: a digital and virtual currency that PayPal holds custody over for you. Another example is a digital gift card, like a $50 voucher for Amazon. The key associated with this card holds value, and in some cases you can even gift and transfer this online. Another example is a domain name. If you own a valuable domain name like Meta.com, the asset isn’t “money” but it also isn’t worthless or valueless. Now take a DAI stablecoin, Aave position, or ENS domain. Very much the same as above assets, except that they align more closely with the three aforementioned properties: trustless, permissionless, and decentralized. In all of these cases we use the term “ownership” but the ownership of dollars in a PayPal account and ownership of DAI tokens in a wallet have very different properties.
- bertman 4y ago
  >except that they align more closely with the three aforementioned properties: trustless, permissionless, and decentralized. But wouldn't you agree that the article is mainly about why "Web 3.0" has failed over and over again to provide exactly these properties, or to provide a valuable solution to a problem that hasn't been or could be solved in a better way already? Literally everything related to "Web 3.0" has been a snowbally scam, and yet, as another commenter in this thread put it aptly, "the "pull back" in hype has allowed a new breed of charlatans to pretend there is ever more legitimacy to this whole scam". It is, for me at least, impossible to take DAI stablecoins, AAVE positions or any other new kid on the block seriously.
  - zeroclip 4y ago
    The article focuses on Bitcoin, Proof of Work, hyped statements like houses-on-the-blockchain, and Ponzi schemes like Bitconnect, which is to say that it isn't focusing on any of today's Web3 tools or products, and especially is not focusing on the successful protocols coming out of Web3. If you or the author feels that Uniswap, DAI, ENS, and AAVE are scams, try to provide some rationale for this claim. Otherwise these sweeping statements are just as hollow as saying that SMPT is a Great Con based on the notion that 85% of today's circulating email is illegitimate.

dwgebler 4y ago

> Nobody in Web3 is suggesting you hold all of your assets in a single private key that you physically carry to a restaurant I'm not suggesting that, either. It's a metaphor. In the metaphor, we're not talking about crypto wallet keys, we're talking about actual, physical keys which open doors. But many people do of course keep all their crypto keys in a single, vulnerable location, or hand the contents of their wallets over to another wallet for some other purpose such as lending - typically this is on centralized exchanges or defi markets and platforms, for example Celsius - which I haven't checked in a while but can only assume is still in business, doing well and allowing customers to access their funds.

zeroclip 4y ago
You did suggest that, even concluding with “That's the world of cryptocurrency” to re-affirm the equivalency of the comparison. This framing is disingenuous. Crypto proponents do not suggest holding all assets in a single key and leaving it in a vulnerable location. It would be like suggesting that investing in fine art is futile because investors might accidentally drop their Picasso painting on the way to the restaurant. Many outspoken proponents advise against “CeFi” including centralized lending services like Celsius. Meanwhile with Aave, which is analogous to Celsius and is actually DeFi, the protocol is still doing fine and the users still have access to their funds. This goes against the general tone of your statements, and is an example of Web3 product that is actually continuing to demonstrate its effectiveness.