23 ms·

Ryzen 7000 amdgpu boot hang

124 points by pabs3 4y ago

pianohacker 4y ago
This is a general problem with all amdgpu-supported devices too new to have firmware shipped in a distro. And a boot hang is a terrible way to find out you're missing firmware.
- DannyBee 4y ago
  Yeah, like, seems odd to boot hang here. Why doesn't it just say "nope" to whatever it's being asked to do (KMS or something i assume, i have no idea) and move on. I have a new Intel NUC whose Iris graphics is apparently little too new for ubuntu's drivers/firmware (works fine on fedora beta and if i and install newer custom-build kernels on ubuntu). It hangs completely on startup without giving me any info. That's actually one of the worst parts of these stupid splash-screened distros. Because they don't bother to help you at all, you have to go through some other mechanism (rescue mode), and understand how to debug the original problem. it's all astonishingly user-hostile.
  - girvo 4y ago
    It's been forever since I daily drove Linux sadly... is it possible to disable those splash screens and put the old TTY boot sequence stuff back? That was always super handy debugging whatever thing I'd recently broken at boot. And I personally think it looks way cooler :)
    - consp 4y ago
      Removing the quiet and splash parameters from the kernel boot parameters in grub will usually do the job of generating normal verbose output.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - yourad_io 4y ago
      In most I've encountered, PgDn switches to showing you the system boot log
    - vetinari 4y ago
      Of course it is possible; check your kernel parameters and remove "quiet splash" to disable it permanently. For one-time, just press Esc.
    - beebeepka 4y ago
      Can disable them in UEFI. I was an early X570/Zen 2 and RDNA adopter. CPU/MB wete mostly fine but I couldn't get proper Vulkan support for an year until I pulled the trigger on a rolling distro for that particular build
    - Teknoman117 4y ago
      It's not the bootsplash that causes the "hang", it's the AMDGPU driver kicking in. With firmware issues or amdgpu bugs in the past, my tty goes away when the module is inserted. The driver goes in, the system tries to switch to an accelerated framebuffer, the GPU driver has a problem, and you're left just looking at a black screen. Bootsplash just does this earlier in the process by inserting the module and throwing up some DRM/GBM app while in initramfs. The system was still up, I ssh'd in and looked at the logs.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - maven29 4y ago
    You are usually able to hit escape and look at dmesg instead of the splash.
    - DannyBee 4y ago
      Not once it's hung. They also turn on quiet mode, so it won't display most kernel messages anyway.
userbinator 4y ago
Is it the driver that complains and then hangs instead of just giving up and letting the boot continue with a fallback? Because clearly it seems the hardware is there for a fallback to plain old VGA?
- atq2119 4y ago
  Unfortunately, it seems that error paths are generally not very well tested in amdgpu.
slavik81 4y ago
Unfortunately, the firmware-amd-graphics package in the Debian non-free archive has not been updated since October 2021. My understanding is that to use AMD GPU hardware released after that point, either the package maintainer will need to update the package with the new firmware from upstream or users will need to get the firmware directly from upstream themselves (as described in this post).
- mnd999 4y ago
  That should be the headline here surely.
- tmtvl 4y ago
  Debian has been noted in the past to ship ancient, outdated, and broken software. Though the slow rate of change is part of its value prop.
  - rob74 4y ago
    Another way to call "ancient and outdated" software is "stable". But I can understand that if you really need the latest version of a piece of software to get your hardware to work, you will not be satisfied with the "stable" version from last year...
    - jhugo 4y ago
      "stable" has multiple meanings, and conflating them leads to a lot of confusion. In the context of Debian, "stable" means that the software that makes up a given distribution does not change, even as the world — hardware, services, expectations — changes around it. If you take "stable" to mean "I can use the OS to do my job, even as my hardware, the services I connect to over networks, and my expectations evolve over time", then in my experience a rolling release like Arch Linux works much better. I've got an Arch Linux server for my email, git, etc that I've done virtually nothing other than package updates to for ~20 years (with two full hardware replacements "out from under the disks" in that time) and it still works as perfectly as it ever did, meanwhile equivalent Debian servers would have needed multiple brittle "upgrade the whole world" updates over the same time period and yet still would have been running ancient outdated software for the majority of that time.
eyelidlessness 4y ago
Is the problem the colons in the logs? Because I can’t read any of the logs with big bright pink highlights around the colons either.
- unwind 4y ago
  Yeah, that was very distracting. It seems all the colons are wrapped in "err"-class span elements for some reason. Must be some blog styling software that has gone off its rails or something.
josephg 4y ago
Just for another datapoint: I'm using one of the new zen4 cpus with Linux Mint. I'm still using the older 5.15.0-50 kernel but almost everything is working fine anyway. That said: - I'm using an old dedicated graphics card (a RX480) instead of the integrated graphics on the CPU. - The system hard crashes when I suspend then resume. - Wow is it slow to POST. It takes about 20 seconds from when I power it on before grub shows up. Hopefully this gets fixed in a future BIOS version. (MSI hasn't updated the BIOS since release.) - I also get a few warnings in dmesg about ACPI objects being already defined. Other than that, everything feels solid. Sound, wifi and ethernet all work fine. All the cores show up and run great.
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  >Wow is it slow to POST. It takes about 20 seconds from when I power it on before grub shows up I remember from some reviews that the new Ryzens took a long time on the first boot for analyzing the RAM or something. Could it be forgetting that analysis and having to do it again? Maybe try manually setting some RAM settings?
- yxhuvud 4y ago
  > Wow is it slow to POST My understanding is that it is intentionally slow the first time you boot but should be normally slow after that. Apparently it is trying how fast it can clock the memory or something like that.
  - zamadatix 4y ago
    It is _ridiculously_ slow on first boot after a cleared CMOS due to the extra memory training - as in minutes. 20 seconds to post is the normal time after that initial boot and a decent time at that for these boards.
    - josephg 4y ago
      Any idea why they're so slow to post? Or if this is something that can ever be fixed? The b550 (zen 3) board I replaced was way faster. I wouldn't mind so much if suspend & resume worked.
jeffbee 4y ago
"Hangs at boot" hardly requires a new CPU. You can enjoy the year of Linux on the desktop with any old Intel CPU, too, since Ubuntu broke all Intel iGPUs in the pre-release Kinetic, right before the pointless "kernel freeze". People do not use Linux when they expect to have better than even odds of the machine booting.
- npteljes 4y ago
  >People do not use Linux when they expect to have better than even odds of the machine booting. I think it's the opposite. People frequently run a Linux live boot, to rescue a failing PC, Linux or not. If you google "live boot" or "rescue usb", most of the results are Linux, or are using Linux under the hood.
pjmlp 4y ago
Another data point that going with AMD isn't guaranteed that everything works out of the box.
- nix23 4y ago
  Another data point that linux is still as amateurish as ever.
  - vladvasiliu 4y ago
    Is it Linux, or is it the whole "consumer pc" industry, putting out shoddily engineered product to save a cent? I have two HP laptops that won't completely work with Windows, even the latest 11 22h2, yet have worked perfectly fine in Linux since day 1. And they're nothing fancy, either: year-old "enterprise" models, AMD/Intel with integrated graphics. Sure, they don't break on boot (though one requires an external mouse to install windows), but they're clearly not fully supported, even after installing the plethora of HP drivers. The Intel one only recently got a graphics driver upgrade that allows it to reliably output 4k@60Hz over the usb-c ports. I guess my point is, if all OSs seem equally amateurish, at least on the hardware support front, maybe it's not the OSs that are amateurish?
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    You surely mean the whole IT industry. The only one that do not issue recalls or warranty refund/ when end product has major issues/misfunction and just tell people to live with those bugs until they potentially fix them or not.
    - nix23 4y ago
      >You surely mean the whole IT industry. Hehe true, the exception's are probably people who work on rockets and satellites ;)
      - saltcured 4y ago
        Well, I think you'll have no end to grief if you try to mix rockets and satellites from different decades together and put them on the launch pad today...
nix23 4y ago
Linux, really has a problem and no one seems to care, if your HW is to old you have a problem, like my T61p RHEL9 panics a boot-time, but no problem, the kernel is anyway to new for the nvidia 240 series of drivers. In the article the opposite....hint..hat would be no problem with windows...something has so change in the Linux-Mindset
- rurban 4y ago
  Linux is not the problem, Linux is perfectly fine. Just Debian is the problem.
  - nix23 4y ago
    Funny then that my example was with redhat linux....but as always, they are a problem too right, just your distribution X is the best right?
    - rurban 4y ago
      RHEL 9 is similar to Debian, too old. Arch and Fedora don't have any problems. Well, Arch got an amdgpu wakeup issue, but they do have proper docs to fix it.
      - nix23 4y ago
        RHEL9 is based on Fedora 34, and btw like i wrote the kernel is to -->NEW<-- for nvidia driver 340. But hey in typical Linux fashion, just use distro x i "never had that problem"...oh btw i use arch...
    - npteljes 4y ago
      A lot of different entities put work into a Linux distribution. In OP's case, it's probably Debian that's at fault, or rather, it's Debian who could fix the issue. The CPU doesn't support every distro explicitly, just Ubuntu and RHEL. OP is using Debian. Therefore it's either Debian's, or OP's problem. In your case, it sounds like RHEL either had a regression, or decided not to support the architecture anymore. The laptop's release year is 2007, which is not too long ago, so I'd expect Linux to work on the machine. If this is a single incident, it might be an issue with the kernel, the distro, the particular media it's written on, or the machine itself.
rurban 4y ago
> so you are booting a Debian system using the new build-in video card of the new CPUs Do you see the error? Will not work with Debian for sure. Rather try a proper OS with updated firmware, like Fedora.
Roark66 4y ago
It is very useful those apps exist. They also advertise the lack of ads in those apps so I suspect they are financed by some public (or charitable) institution. Unfortunately, all apps can't be finances this way so I personally would really like for some privacy minded ad network to appear. I suppose most people associate ads with no tracking/ids as useless (paying an order of magnitude less than the alternative). I wish some innovative method emerged to make privacy friendly ads have comparable sucess rates.
johnchristopher 4y ago
Does it mean the no tweaking or easy road is still to go with Intel igpu ?
- izacus 4y ago
  No, it means (like it does for every single other platform) that you need to use a distro that's newer than the hardware you're running on. Debian is sadly behind a lot of the time.
  - johnchristopher 4y ago
    So, stick to before-last gen. hardware then, got it ^^.
  - RealStickman_ 4y ago
    Debian is intentionally behind
npteljes 4y ago
OP's issue stems from running Debian, when the supported systems are "RHEL x86 64-Bit" and "Ubuntu x86 64-Bit". https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-7700x https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-7700x Cursory internet search brings up a Linux review page, where on the first page, it's explicitly stated that to run the cpu, the user is "needing Linux 5.18 + Mesa 22 / linux-firmware.git as of this month to make use of the Radeon iGPU under Linux", and later that "AMD Zen 4 processors [..] are working out-of-the-box on modern Linux distributions like Ubuntu 22.04 and newer." https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7700x https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7700x This is a non-issue.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Or rather, it is an issue with Debian; and all they need to do to fix it is update the firmware package; not sure what's preventing them from adding new firmwares at least. Been reported before as well: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=firmware-amd-graphics;dist=unstable https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=firmware-a... No idea why this made it to the frontpage though.
  - NotCamelCase 4y ago
    Because online, drama tops non-drama? This is the worst aspect of this site being more Reddit-like for me.
- blaser-waffle 4y ago
  So, the issue is that Debian has older and non-updated packages, correct? Aka the meme about Debian's packages being stale is on-point in this case? Surprised to see that if true, esp. since Ubuntu has it working.
nottorp 4y ago
Meh? If you want to run hardware released last week you do check if the software you're installing can run on it. Edit: anyone remembers having to prepare a sata driver floppy for windows 2000 (or was it 7?) when sata was new?
- technion 4y ago
  I remember windows would give you what felt like 10ms to press f6 to load a driver. The text offering you the option would sit on the screen for about two seconds after the opportunity has been missed (causing confusion), and your only solution was to hit reset and try again.
  - nottorp 4y ago
    No no no. You don't press F keys when the message to press them shows up at boot. You start compulsively hitting them with one hand before you press the power button with the other, and only stop when you see the screen you're expecting.
    - technion 4y ago
      Exactly how I would have done things except the hardware we used to sell had F6 to load raid management firmware.. so too early and I would end up looking at disk configurations. Of course there was no exit when I pressed too early, just another reset button :)
      - nottorp 4y ago
        Just like a twitchy video game! I feel your pain.
- planede 4y ago
  I remember doing that for XP. There were also dedicated software to prepare install media that included the sata drivers, so you could use that with machines without a floppy drive.
- 4y ago
ZiiS 4y ago
"Stable" in its unchanging meaning is an all or nothing philosophy. If you are running on prerelease hardware you do not have a "stable" system. The are plenty of rolling (Arch) or certified (RHEL) systems that ensure you have a "stable" experience in its always works meaning.

124 points by pabs3 4y ago

This is a general problem with all amdgpu-supported devices too new to have firmware shipped in a distro. And a boot hang is a terrible way to find out you're missing firmware.

DannyBee 4y ago
Yeah, like, seems odd to boot hang here. Why doesn't it just say "nope" to whatever it's being asked to do (KMS or something i assume, i have no idea) and move on. I have a new Intel NUC whose Iris graphics is apparently little too new for ubuntu's drivers/firmware (works fine on fedora beta and if i and install newer custom-build kernels on ubuntu). It hangs completely on startup without giving me any info. That's actually one of the worst parts of these stupid splash-screened distros. Because they don't bother to help you at all, you have to go through some other mechanism (rescue mode), and understand how to debug the original problem. it's all astonishingly user-hostile.
- girvo 4y ago
  It's been forever since I daily drove Linux sadly... is it possible to disable those splash screens and put the old TTY boot sequence stuff back? That was always super handy debugging whatever thing I'd recently broken at boot. And I personally think it looks way cooler :)
  - consp 4y ago
    Removing the quiet and splash parameters from the kernel boot parameters in grub will usually do the job of generating normal verbose output.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - yourad_io 4y ago
    In most I've encountered, PgDn switches to showing you the system boot log
  - vetinari 4y ago
    Of course it is possible; check your kernel parameters and remove "quiet splash" to disable it permanently. For one-time, just press Esc.
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    Can disable them in UEFI. I was an early X570/Zen 2 and RDNA adopter. CPU/MB wete mostly fine but I couldn't get proper Vulkan support for an year until I pulled the trigger on a rolling distro for that particular build
  - Teknoman117 4y ago
    It's not the bootsplash that causes the "hang", it's the AMDGPU driver kicking in. With firmware issues or amdgpu bugs in the past, my tty goes away when the module is inserted. The driver goes in, the system tries to switch to an accelerated framebuffer, the GPU driver has a problem, and you're left just looking at a black screen. Bootsplash just does this earlier in the process by inserting the module and throwing up some DRM/GBM app while in initramfs. The system was still up, I ssh'd in and looked at the logs.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- maven29 4y ago
  You are usually able to hit escape and look at dmesg instead of the splash.
  - DannyBee 4y ago
    Not once it's hung. They also turn on quiet mode, so it won't display most kernel messages anyway.

userbinator 4y ago

Is it the driver that complains and then hangs instead of just giving up and letting the boot continue with a fallback? Because clearly it seems the hardware is there for a fallback to plain old VGA?

atq2119 4y ago
Unfortunately, it seems that error paths are generally not very well tested in amdgpu.

slavik81 4y ago

Unfortunately, the firmware-amd-graphics package in the Debian non-free archive has not been updated since October 2021. My understanding is that to use AMD GPU hardware released after that point, either the package maintainer will need to update the package with the new firmware from upstream or users will need to get the firmware directly from upstream themselves (as described in this post).

mnd999 4y ago
That should be the headline here surely.
tmtvl 4y ago
Debian has been noted in the past to ship ancient, outdated, and broken software. Though the slow rate of change is part of its value prop.
- rob74 4y ago
  Another way to call "ancient and outdated" software is "stable". But I can understand that if you really need the latest version of a piece of software to get your hardware to work, you will not be satisfied with the "stable" version from last year...
  - jhugo 4y ago
    "stable" has multiple meanings, and conflating them leads to a lot of confusion. In the context of Debian, "stable" means that the software that makes up a given distribution does not change, even as the world — hardware, services, expectations — changes around it. If you take "stable" to mean "I can use the OS to do my job, even as my hardware, the services I connect to over networks, and my expectations evolve over time", then in my experience a rolling release like Arch Linux works much better. I've got an Arch Linux server for my email, git, etc that I've done virtually nothing other than package updates to for ~20 years (with two full hardware replacements "out from under the disks" in that time) and it still works as perfectly as it ever did, meanwhile equivalent Debian servers would have needed multiple brittle "upgrade the whole world" updates over the same time period and yet still would have been running ancient outdated software for the majority of that time.

eyelidlessness 4y ago

Is the problem the colons in the logs? Because I can’t read any of the logs with big bright pink highlights around the colons either.

unwind 4y ago
Yeah, that was very distracting. It seems all the colons are wrapped in "err"-class span elements for some reason. Must be some blog styling software that has gone off its rails or something.

josephg 4y ago

Just for another datapoint: I'm using one of the new zen4 cpus with Linux Mint. I'm still using the older 5.15.0-50 kernel but almost everything is working fine anyway. That said: - I'm using an old dedicated graphics card (a RX480) instead of the integrated graphics on the CPU. - The system hard crashes when I suspend then resume. - Wow is it slow to POST. It takes about 20 seconds from when I power it on before grub shows up. Hopefully this gets fixed in a future BIOS version. (MSI hasn't updated the BIOS since release.) - I also get a few warnings in dmesg about ACPI objects being already defined. Other than that, everything feels solid. Sound, wifi and ethernet all work fine. All the cores show up and run great.

brokenmachine 4y ago
>Wow is it slow to POST. It takes about 20 seconds from when I power it on before grub shows up I remember from some reviews that the new Ryzens took a long time on the first boot for analyzing the RAM or something. Could it be forgetting that analysis and having to do it again? Maybe try manually setting some RAM settings?
yxhuvud 4y ago
> Wow is it slow to POST My understanding is that it is intentionally slow the first time you boot but should be normally slow after that. Apparently it is trying how fast it can clock the memory or something like that.
- zamadatix 4y ago
  It is _ridiculously_ slow on first boot after a cleared CMOS due to the extra memory training - as in minutes. 20 seconds to post is the normal time after that initial boot and a decent time at that for these boards.
  - josephg 4y ago
    Any idea why they're so slow to post? Or if this is something that can ever be fixed? The b550 (zen 3) board I replaced was way faster. I wouldn't mind so much if suspend & resume worked.

jeffbee 4y ago

"Hangs at boot" hardly requires a new CPU. You can enjoy the year of Linux on the desktop with any old Intel CPU, too, since Ubuntu broke all Intel iGPUs in the pre-release Kinetic, right before the pointless "kernel freeze". People do not use Linux when they expect to have better than even odds of the machine booting.

npteljes 4y ago
>People do not use Linux when they expect to have better than even odds of the machine booting. I think it's the opposite. People frequently run a Linux live boot, to rescue a failing PC, Linux or not. If you google "live boot" or "rescue usb", most of the results are Linux, or are using Linux under the hood.

pjmlp 4y ago

Another data point that going with AMD isn't guaranteed that everything works out of the box.

nix23 4y ago
Another data point that linux is still as amateurish as ever.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  Is it Linux, or is it the whole "consumer pc" industry, putting out shoddily engineered product to save a cent? I have two HP laptops that won't completely work with Windows, even the latest 11 22h2, yet have worked perfectly fine in Linux since day 1. And they're nothing fancy, either: year-old "enterprise" models, AMD/Intel with integrated graphics. Sure, they don't break on boot (though one requires an external mouse to install windows), but they're clearly not fully supported, even after installing the plethora of HP drivers. The Intel one only recently got a graphics driver upgrade that allows it to reliably output 4k@60Hz over the usb-c ports. I guess my point is, if all OSs seem equally amateurish, at least on the hardware support front, maybe it's not the OSs that are amateurish?
- prmoustache 4y ago
  You surely mean the whole IT industry. The only one that do not issue recalls or warranty refund/ when end product has major issues/misfunction and just tell people to live with those bugs until they potentially fix them or not.
  - nix23 4y ago
    >You surely mean the whole IT industry. Hehe true, the exception's are probably people who work on rockets and satellites ;)
    - saltcured 4y ago
      Well, I think you'll have no end to grief if you try to mix rockets and satellites from different decades together and put them on the launch pad today...

nix23 4y ago

Linux, really has a problem and no one seems to care, if your HW is to old you have a problem, like my T61p RHEL9 panics a boot-time, but no problem, the kernel is anyway to new for the nvidia 240 series of drivers. In the article the opposite....hint..hat would be no problem with windows...something has so change in the Linux-Mindset

rurban 4y ago
Linux is not the problem, Linux is perfectly fine. Just Debian is the problem.
- nix23 4y ago
  Funny then that my example was with redhat linux....but as always, they are a problem too right, just your distribution X is the best right?
  - rurban 4y ago
    RHEL 9 is similar to Debian, too old. Arch and Fedora don't have any problems. Well, Arch got an amdgpu wakeup issue, but they do have proper docs to fix it.
    - nix23 4y ago
      RHEL9 is based on Fedora 34, and btw like i wrote the kernel is to -->NEW<-- for nvidia driver 340. But hey in typical Linux fashion, just use distro x i "never had that problem"...oh btw i use arch...
  - npteljes 4y ago
    A lot of different entities put work into a Linux distribution. In OP's case, it's probably Debian that's at fault, or rather, it's Debian who could fix the issue. The CPU doesn't support every distro explicitly, just Ubuntu and RHEL. OP is using Debian. Therefore it's either Debian's, or OP's problem. In your case, it sounds like RHEL either had a regression, or decided not to support the architecture anymore. The laptop's release year is 2007, which is not too long ago, so I'd expect Linux to work on the machine. If this is a single incident, it might be an issue with the kernel, the distro, the particular media it's written on, or the machine itself.

rurban 4y ago

> so you are booting a Debian system using the new build-in video card of the new CPUs Do you see the error? Will not work with Debian for sure. Rather try a proper OS with updated firmware, like Fedora.

Roark66 4y ago

It is very useful those apps exist. They also advertise the lack of ads in those apps so I suspect they are financed by some public (or charitable) institution. Unfortunately, all apps can't be finances this way so I personally would really like for some privacy minded ad network to appear. I suppose most people associate ads with no tracking/ids as useless (paying an order of magnitude less than the alternative). I wish some innovative method emerged to make privacy friendly ads have comparable sucess rates.

johnchristopher 4y ago

Does it mean the no tweaking or easy road is still to go with Intel igpu ?

izacus 4y ago
No, it means (like it does for every single other platform) that you need to use a distro that's newer than the hardware you're running on. Debian is sadly behind a lot of the time.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  So, stick to before-last gen. hardware then, got it ^^.
- RealStickman_ 4y ago
  Debian is intentionally behind

npteljes 4y ago

OP's issue stems from running Debian, when the supported systems are "RHEL x86 64-Bit" and "Ubuntu x86 64-Bit". https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-7700x https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-7-7700x Cursory internet search brings up a Linux review page, where on the first page, it's explicitly stated that to run the cpu, the user is "needing Linux 5.18 + Mesa 22 / linux-firmware.git as of this month to make use of the Radeon iGPU under Linux", and later that "AMD Zen 4 processors [..] are working out-of-the-box on modern Linux distributions like Ubuntu 22.04 and newer." https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7700x https://www.phoronix.com/review/amd-ryzen7-7700x This is a non-issue.

Beltalowda 4y ago
Or rather, it is an issue with Debian; and all they need to do to fix it is update the firmware package; not sure what's preventing them from adding new firmwares at least. Been reported before as well: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=firmware-amd-graphics;dist=unstable https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=firmware-a... No idea why this made it to the frontpage though.
- NotCamelCase 4y ago
  Because online, drama tops non-drama? This is the worst aspect of this site being more Reddit-like for me.
blaser-waffle 4y ago
So, the issue is that Debian has older and non-updated packages, correct? Aka the meme about Debian's packages being stale is on-point in this case? Surprised to see that if true, esp. since Ubuntu has it working.

nottorp 4y ago

Meh? If you want to run hardware released last week you do check if the software you're installing can run on it. Edit: anyone remembers having to prepare a sata driver floppy for windows 2000 (or was it 7?) when sata was new?

technion 4y ago
I remember windows would give you what felt like 10ms to press f6 to load a driver. The text offering you the option would sit on the screen for about two seconds after the opportunity has been missed (causing confusion), and your only solution was to hit reset and try again.
- nottorp 4y ago
  No no no. You don't press F keys when the message to press them shows up at boot. You start compulsively hitting them with one hand before you press the power button with the other, and only stop when you see the screen you're expecting.
  - technion 4y ago
    Exactly how I would have done things except the hardware we used to sell had F6 to load raid management firmware.. so too early and I would end up looking at disk configurations. Of course there was no exit when I pressed too early, just another reset button :)
    - nottorp 4y ago
      Just like a twitchy video game! I feel your pain.
planede 4y ago
I remember doing that for XP. There were also dedicated software to prepare install media that included the sata drivers, so you could use that with machines without a floppy drive.
4y ago

ZiiS 4y ago

"Stable" in its unchanging meaning is an all or nothing philosophy. If you are running on prerelease hardware you do not have a "stable" system. The are plenty of rolling (Arch) or certified (RHEL) systems that ensure you have a "stable" experience in its always works meaning.