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One thing that younger Canadians and foreigners don't seem to grasp is that Canada's economy is basically a handful of abusive corporations pretending to be a c

One thing that younger Canadians and foreigners don't seem to grasp is that Canada's economy is basically a handful of abusive corporations pretending to be a country. The Maritimes are dominated completely by the holdings of a single family. The West is dominated by resource extraction and banking. Ontario and Quebec are owned by banking and manufacturing families. And then there's Robellus... But that said, there's also that raising Canadian capital is historically a fool's errand. Raising loonies is so hard it's basically pointless, it's almost always better for entrepreneurs to register as American corporations, pretend to be American, and raise American money. Because, at the end of the day, every party in Canada is beholden to their campaign financiers. Every party. And no money wants to flow outside of the proven channels.

cbsmith 4y ago
> One thing that younger Canadians and foreigners don't seem to grasp is that Canada's economy is basically a handful of abusive corporations pretending to be a country. I think that's a gross oversimplification. There certainly is a tiny fraction of the population that holds the vast majority of Canada's wealth, but you could say the same of the US or really a lot of other countries, and it's not like all those companies have existed since confederation, so I don't think that's really a reasonable way to define Canada's economy. The Canadian GDP is $1.6 trillion USD, and those companies certainly have a hand in a lot of it, but you'd have to make a pretty long list of companies to even get to $1 trillion... > But that said, there's also that raising Canadian capital is historically a fool's errand. Raising loonies is so hard it's basically pointless, it's almost always better for entrepreneurs to register as American corporations, pretend to be American, and raise American money. > > Because, at the end of the day, every party in Canada is beholden to their campaign financiers. Every party. And no money wants to flow outside of the proven channels. It's more a function of Canadian banking and money management, at least historically, being far more conservative the the US's wild west. There's a reason Canada largely avoided the financial crisis of 2008, and it's not because Canadians are smarter than everyone else. That said, it's fair to say there have been a number of Canadian tech startups that have done quite well for themselves, not to mention non-tech companies that have managed to be quite successful on the world stage. Maybe not at the same level as the US, but then, few countries can really measure up to that standard (and the consequences that come with it). While I would say Canada's political parties are beholden to their campaign financiers, that hasn't exactly produced what I'd call "stability" in the political arena... and there's a fair bit of independence between the political arena and the economy (despite how inconvenient that is for some narratives). I wouldn't agree that money can't flow outside of proven channels for that reason. It's more that you have to make a much more solid case to get any significant funding from Canadian sources.
- dleslie 4y ago
  It's not an oversimplification; it's the cruel reality of Canada outside of the major urban centres, where relatively tiny companies can flourish before either listing themselves on a foreign exchange, being purchased, or failing. In every major sector of the Canadian economy you'll find one or two dominant corporations, and most of them are helmed by, or advised by, hereditary rulership; sometimes you'll find a cartel operating with the support of the provincial government. IE, basically nothing is done in the Maritimes without the approval of the Irvings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Group_of_Companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Group_of_Companies Sometimes it seems like there's competition and diversity in the market, but in practice there's not. Like in BC, where Forestry appears to have many players, but they mostly isolate themselves from one another and form a monopoly in their regions and they negotiate together with the Province to set the terms of their business; and the very small forestry corporations often take their product to market through channels provided by the larger players. Where I live, the local Forestry company has been barricading public access roads and using rentacops to drive people off Crown Land; and it's tolerated and allowed, because forestry companies are given great leeway to act above the law.
  - cbsmith 4y ago
    > It's not an oversimplification; it's the cruel reality of Canada outside of the major urban centres, where relatively tiny companies can flourish before either listing themselves on a foreign exchange, being purchased, or failing. Sure, if you exclude the vast majority of the country, there's really not a lot there. ;--) Seriously, by the kind estimates of statscan, outside the major population centers you have just over six and a half million people (and that's after the big bump from COVID-19 migration). I think those six and a half million are about as financially independent as you could reasonable expect from an economy that is expressly outside of even local financial & trade centers. > Where I live, the local Forestry company has been barricading public access roads and using rentacops to drive people off Crown Land; and it's tolerated and allowed, because forestry companies are given great leeway to act above the law. Very much unlike, say the US, where large corporations are routinely reigned in by government oversight? ;-)
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>One thing that younger Canadians and foreigners don't seem to grasp is that Canada's economy is basically a handful of abusive corporations pretending to be a country. That's also true for Europe. If you look at the top companies in Europe, most are 50 to 100 years old, with a sensible portion of their stake still in the hands of the family of the founders. HMLV, Nestle, Porsche, etc. you name it. Any new innovative company gets immediately bought by US or Chinese money as the local money is too busy speculating on real estate.
- cbsmith 4y ago
  I think it's tough to speak in generalizations about vast populations. There's certainly very wealthy people & families in all the major economies, but European countries have some of the highest scores for social mobility: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index

cbsmith 4y ago

> One thing that younger Canadians and foreigners don't seem to grasp is that Canada's economy is basically a handful of abusive corporations pretending to be a country. I think that's a gross oversimplification. There certainly is a tiny fraction of the population that holds the vast majority of Canada's wealth, but you could say the same of the US or really a lot of other countries, and it's not like all those companies have existed since confederation, so I don't think that's really a reasonable way to define Canada's economy. The Canadian GDP is $1.6 trillion USD, and those companies certainly have a hand in a lot of it, but you'd have to make a pretty long list of companies to even get to $1 trillion... > But that said, there's also that raising Canadian capital is historically a fool's errand. Raising loonies is so hard it's basically pointless, it's almost always better for entrepreneurs to register as American corporations, pretend to be American, and raise American money. > > Because, at the end of the day, every party in Canada is beholden to their campaign financiers. Every party. And no money wants to flow outside of the proven channels. It's more a function of Canadian banking and money management, at least historically, being far more conservative the the US's wild west. There's a reason Canada largely avoided the financial crisis of 2008, and it's not because Canadians are smarter than everyone else. That said, it's fair to say there have been a number of Canadian tech startups that have done quite well for themselves, not to mention non-tech companies that have managed to be quite successful on the world stage. Maybe not at the same level as the US, but then, few countries can really measure up to that standard (and the consequences that come with it). While I would say Canada's political parties are beholden to their campaign financiers, that hasn't exactly produced what I'd call "stability" in the political arena... and there's a fair bit of independence between the political arena and the economy (despite how inconvenient that is for some narratives). I wouldn't agree that money can't flow outside of proven channels for that reason. It's more that you have to make a much more solid case to get any significant funding from Canadian sources.

dleslie 4y ago
It's not an oversimplification; it's the cruel reality of Canada outside of the major urban centres, where relatively tiny companies can flourish before either listing themselves on a foreign exchange, being purchased, or failing. In every major sector of the Canadian economy you'll find one or two dominant corporations, and most of them are helmed by, or advised by, hereditary rulership; sometimes you'll find a cartel operating with the support of the provincial government. IE, basically nothing is done in the Maritimes without the approval of the Irvings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Group_of_Companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Group_of_Companies Sometimes it seems like there's competition and diversity in the market, but in practice there's not. Like in BC, where Forestry appears to have many players, but they mostly isolate themselves from one another and form a monopoly in their regions and they negotiate together with the Province to set the terms of their business; and the very small forestry corporations often take their product to market through channels provided by the larger players. Where I live, the local Forestry company has been barricading public access roads and using rentacops to drive people off Crown Land; and it's tolerated and allowed, because forestry companies are given great leeway to act above the law.
- cbsmith 4y ago
  > It's not an oversimplification; it's the cruel reality of Canada outside of the major urban centres, where relatively tiny companies can flourish before either listing themselves on a foreign exchange, being purchased, or failing. Sure, if you exclude the vast majority of the country, there's really not a lot there. ;--) Seriously, by the kind estimates of statscan, outside the major population centers you have just over six and a half million people (and that's after the big bump from COVID-19 migration). I think those six and a half million are about as financially independent as you could reasonable expect from an economy that is expressly outside of even local financial & trade centers. > Where I live, the local Forestry company has been barricading public access roads and using rentacops to drive people off Crown Land; and it's tolerated and allowed, because forestry companies are given great leeway to act above the law. Very much unlike, say the US, where large corporations are routinely reigned in by government oversight? ;-)

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>One thing that younger Canadians and foreigners don't seem to grasp is that Canada's economy is basically a handful of abusive corporations pretending to be a country. That's also true for Europe. If you look at the top companies in Europe, most are 50 to 100 years old, with a sensible portion of their stake still in the hands of the family of the founders. HMLV, Nestle, Porsche, etc. you name it. Any new innovative company gets immediately bought by US or Chinese money as the local money is too busy speculating on real estate.

cbsmith 4y ago
I think it's tough to speak in generalizations about vast populations. There's certainly very wealthy people & families in all the major economies, but European countries have some of the highest scores for social mobility: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index