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That's like saying why not tell your employer about your religious principles or sex life. It is not your employers business. Working for multiple employers s

by ipaddr 4y ago

That's like saying why not tell your employer about your religious principles or sex life. It is not your employers business. Working for multiple employers shouldn't be either.

drekipus 4y ago
What you do during work hours is literally your employer's business.
thunky 4y ago
Ok how about this then: don't hide it from your employer. For example, don't use a mouse jiggler, just be "away" when you're not working. And if you have a time conflict, don't lie to cover up your second job.
ThrowawayR2 4y ago
> "It is not your employers business." Your employment contract makes it their business. If it says you can have multiple jobs, you're golden; if not, well...
- muti 4y ago
  There are an infinite number of things that could be included in an employment contract that would be unenforceable. Should conditions on other sources of income be enforceable?
  - codefreeordie 4y ago
    There's a spectrum. Moonlighting for a direct competitor is obviously problematic. Moonlighting for a customer is also somewhat problematic, due to the appearance of a conflict of interest (is the customer getting special treatment out of hiring you? Are you ever in a position to take an action at either company which is influenced either by the secrets you know about the other or by their interests?) Moonlighting for an unrelated business in the same field is less likely to be problematic, but in the case of, for example, Alphabet or Apple, exactly what are you doing that is definitely not a conflict of interest. Moonlighting a second full-time job will in general cause you to be less effective at either than you would be absent the moonlighting, because human focus and energy are finite resources. Moonlighting a part-time gig in a materially unrelated line of business is probably entirely conflict-of-interest free -- and nearly all employers would not attempt to stop you from doing so, though they may require you to tell them about it and let them verify that it actually is conflict-of-interest-free. (Of course, telling them might make them start paying close attention to whether or not you're getting "a full day's work" done in your day job, which, if you aren't, will probably cause you grief eventually)
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  Generally speaking, in most states in the US, it would not be permissible to prohibit moonlighting for an unrelated second employer in an employment contract. There are exceptions, but in general, this is the case. It is, however, also the case that employers can require you to inform them in advance of any moonlighting, they can demand an opportunity to vet the moonlighting to verify that it is legitimately unrelated and that you are not being hired by the second employer due to a desire to gain either and trade secrets or any favors relating to the first employer (or any other similar potential conflict of interest), and they can require that you deliver the same workload for them that you would in the event that you did not do any moonlighting. Of course, actually going through the whole officially-saying-you-are-moonlighting process is tedious, annoying, and can lead to conflicts with the first employer (especially since they'll start looking closely at your performance, which they might not otherwise do), so many people who have agreed to an agreement like this moonlight without telling the first employer -- and then they are subject to disciplinary action if they get found out. (Also lots of people accidentally or carelessly end up using some first-employer asset/resource when moonlighting -- especially in a remote-work world where your employer might have outfitted your home office for you with property that you have agreed that they own even though everybody knows that if you left the employer they wouldn't ask for it back)
saxonww 4y ago
Hypothetically, do you think you should be able to work for, say, Facebook and Snap at the same time? Because that's a good example of what this convention (rule?) is for. There's a lot of company 'property' that you'd be able to transfer between the two, and I think it is their right to ask you not to do that, because it could be damaging to one or both in a variety of ways.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  They forbid you from working at Burger King on the weekend.
  - saxonww 4y ago
    Who is they? I've never worked for a FAANG, but every place I've worked made it a discretionary thing. I would agree that if the other job was literally "I'd like to flip burgers on the weekend," then the Facebooks of the world should not be able to tell you no, and I guess I'd be surprised if they tried. Working with Burger King as a software developer to build a new social engagement app though, yes. I also think if you're employed by Facebook as a software developer, and you need to work at Burger King to get extra money, then something else is wrong. Of course you should be able to do what you want with your time but... really?
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      I have a contract like that. It prevents helping out on the family business or even running a garage sale without vp approval.
UncleMeat 4y ago
If your boss asks for a meeting at 3:00pm and you’ve got another meeting at the same time with the other company, you should have no problem saying “I’ve got a conflict with my other job” if there is indeed no problem here. If you lie and say “I need to pick up my kid” or something else then this is an indication something is wrong.

by ipaddr 4y ago

That's like saying why not tell your employer about your religious principles or sex life. It is not your employers business. Working for multiple employers shouldn't be either.

drekipus 4y ago

What you do during work hours is literally your employer's business.

thunky 4y ago

Ok how about this then: don't hide it from your employer. For example, don't use a mouse jiggler, just be "away" when you're not working. And if you have a time conflict, don't lie to cover up your second job.

ThrowawayR2 4y ago

> "It is not your employers business." Your employment contract makes it their business. If it says you can have multiple jobs, you're golden; if not, well...

muti 4y ago
There are an infinite number of things that could be included in an employment contract that would be unenforceable. Should conditions on other sources of income be enforceable?
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  There's a spectrum. Moonlighting for a direct competitor is obviously problematic. Moonlighting for a customer is also somewhat problematic, due to the appearance of a conflict of interest (is the customer getting special treatment out of hiring you? Are you ever in a position to take an action at either company which is influenced either by the secrets you know about the other or by their interests?) Moonlighting for an unrelated business in the same field is less likely to be problematic, but in the case of, for example, Alphabet or Apple, exactly what are you doing that is definitely not a conflict of interest. Moonlighting a second full-time job will in general cause you to be less effective at either than you would be absent the moonlighting, because human focus and energy are finite resources. Moonlighting a part-time gig in a materially unrelated line of business is probably entirely conflict-of-interest free -- and nearly all employers would not attempt to stop you from doing so, though they may require you to tell them about it and let them verify that it actually is conflict-of-interest-free. (Of course, telling them might make them start paying close attention to whether or not you're getting "a full day's work" done in your day job, which, if you aren't, will probably cause you grief eventually)
codefreeordie 4y ago
Generally speaking, in most states in the US, it would not be permissible to prohibit moonlighting for an unrelated second employer in an employment contract. There are exceptions, but in general, this is the case. It is, however, also the case that employers can require you to inform them in advance of any moonlighting, they can demand an opportunity to vet the moonlighting to verify that it is legitimately unrelated and that you are not being hired by the second employer due to a desire to gain either and trade secrets or any favors relating to the first employer (or any other similar potential conflict of interest), and they can require that you deliver the same workload for them that you would in the event that you did not do any moonlighting. Of course, actually going through the whole officially-saying-you-are-moonlighting process is tedious, annoying, and can lead to conflicts with the first employer (especially since they'll start looking closely at your performance, which they might not otherwise do), so many people who have agreed to an agreement like this moonlight without telling the first employer -- and then they are subject to disciplinary action if they get found out. (Also lots of people accidentally or carelessly end up using some first-employer asset/resource when moonlighting -- especially in a remote-work world where your employer might have outfitted your home office for you with property that you have agreed that they own even though everybody knows that if you left the employer they wouldn't ask for it back)

saxonww 4y ago

Hypothetically, do you think you should be able to work for, say, Facebook and Snap at the same time? Because that's a good example of what this convention (rule?) is for. There's a lot of company 'property' that you'd be able to transfer between the two, and I think it is their right to ask you not to do that, because it could be damaging to one or both in a variety of ways.

ipaddr 4y ago
They forbid you from working at Burger King on the weekend.
- saxonww 4y ago
  Who is they? I've never worked for a FAANG, but every place I've worked made it a discretionary thing. I would agree that if the other job was literally "I'd like to flip burgers on the weekend," then the Facebooks of the world should not be able to tell you no, and I guess I'd be surprised if they tried. Working with Burger King as a software developer to build a new social engagement app though, yes. I also think if you're employed by Facebook as a software developer, and you need to work at Burger King to get extra money, then something else is wrong. Of course you should be able to do what you want with your time but... really?
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    I have a contract like that. It prevents helping out on the family business or even running a garage sale without vp approval.

UncleMeat 4y ago

If your boss asks for a meeting at 3:00pm and you’ve got another meeting at the same time with the other company, you should have no problem saying “I’ve got a conflict with my other job” if there is indeed no problem here. If you lie and say “I need to pick up my kid” or something else then this is an indication something is wrong.