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> I consider it highly unethical to frame squeezing as much money out of people for shelter as "[taking] away the tenant's ability to exploit an inefficiency in

by thunky 4y ago

> I consider it highly unethical to frame squeezing as much money out of people for shelter as "[taking] away the tenant's ability to exploit an inefficiency in market pricing" Maybe I shouldn't have used the word exploit. I didn't mean that the tenant is cheating the landlord, I just meant that there is an inefficiency in the market and the tenant is able to use it to their advantage. Rents, like house prices, do have a fair market value. Buyers and sellers are constantly engaging in negotiations every day in order to set prices on the whole. If software helps the buyer or seller negotiate more effectively, that's fine by me. I don't disagree with you that it's become much more difficult for people to afford housing and other necessities. It's a huge problem. And I think you're on the right track when you mention large investors buying investment property. I wouldn't be opposed to limiting foreign investment. Crossing my fingers that with rates finally rising, housing/rental investment becomes less attractive and the market comes back down to earth and rents come down with it.

richbell 4y ago
> Maybe I shouldn't have used the word exploit. I didn't mean that the tenant is cheating the landlord, I just meant that there is an inefficiency in the market and the tenant is able to use it to their advantage. And that's a fair point — I just think that "the market" tends to be a harmful concept for basic needs like housing, especially when there are controlling interests whose sole motivation is to maximize profit. I have an inherent distrust of software (https://xkcd.com/2030/ https://xkcd.com/2030/), and the fact that programs like YieldStar rely on proprietary formulations and non-public data (or at least data that isn't possible for the average person to reasonably acquire on their own) means you are trusting them to provide a fair valuation when there's a bit of a conflict of interest for them not to. "The market" has been a pretty poor regulatory of corporate malfeasance. Short-term profit is usually at the cost of longevity. In the case of housing, there is a difficult to quantify 'human cost'. People are generally healthier, more productive, and contribute more to their local economy when they aren't stressed and experiencing financial hardship. But I digress. I think we both understand each other, agree on a few things, and disagree on others. > And I think you're on the right track when you mention large investors buying investment property. Rates rising has definitely cooled the market in my city, albeit prices are still at least 100k over where they were even a year ago. I worry though that the recession we may or may not already be in will simply be an opportunity for big players to swoop in and buy even more supply. I don't really see things improving without significant changes to things like zoning laws, short-term rentals, and limiting mass-ownership of property (so new supply actually goes to buyers and not speculators).

by thunky 4y ago

richbell 4y ago

> Maybe I shouldn't have used the word exploit. I didn't mean that the tenant is cheating the landlord, I just meant that there is an inefficiency in the market and the tenant is able to use it to their advantage. And that's a fair point — I just think that "the market" tends to be a harmful concept for basic needs like housing, especially when there are controlling interests whose sole motivation is to maximize profit. I have an inherent distrust of software (https://xkcd.com/2030/ https://xkcd.com/2030/), and the fact that programs like YieldStar rely on proprietary formulations and non-public data (or at least data that isn't possible for the average person to reasonably acquire on their own) means you are trusting them to provide a fair valuation when there's a bit of a conflict of interest for them not to. "The market" has been a pretty poor regulatory of corporate malfeasance. Short-term profit is usually at the cost of longevity. In the case of housing, there is a difficult to quantify 'human cost'. People are generally healthier, more productive, and contribute more to their local economy when they aren't stressed and experiencing financial hardship. But I digress. I think we both understand each other, agree on a few things, and disagree on others. > And I think you're on the right track when you mention large investors buying investment property. Rates rising has definitely cooled the market in my city, albeit prices are still at least 100k over where they were even a year ago. I worry though that the recession we may or may not already be in will simply be an opportunity for big players to swoop in and buy even more supply. I don't really see things improving without significant changes to things like zoning laws, short-term rentals, and limiting mass-ownership of property (so new supply actually goes to buyers and not speculators).