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> But the underlying problem here is the supply & demand! This is the answer to most pop-Econ articles. It’s amazing how hard people want to believe that somet

> But the underlying problem here is the supply & demand! This is the answer to most pop-Econ articles. It’s amazing how hard people want to believe that something else is to blame or that traditional economics doesn’t apply for some reason. Algorithms are a popular outrage-bait right now, so I’m not too surprised to see “the algorithm” blamed for high rents now, too.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Because supply and demand itself is ridiculously broad. I don't even see people claim it isn't S&D given so many say anything from "build more housing" to "slackers go earn more money / save more", but saying supply & demand is the underlying problem is about as useful as saying the needle is in the haystack.
klyrs 4y ago
The problem isn't "the algorithm," the article is exceedingly clear that the problem is "the company" and "the captured market" but mostly collusion by proxy. But in this case, it's also the algorithm -- the article has multiple quotes where "empathy" is seen as a problem and that getting humans out of the loop is a boon to profit. The algorithm itself isn't the problem, it's the bloody-minded profit-seeking where capitalists leverage trust in the algorithm to extract maximum rents by leaving properties vacant in the midst of a housing crunch.
- ajhurliman 4y ago
  Leaving properties vacant is an absolute killer to revenue. I’m reading a lot of people in this discussion cite that property managers are comfortable with vacant units because of all the extra money they’re making off of raising the rents, but you’d need to raise them an incredible amount to justify even a single month of vacancy. Normally 5% is reasonable, but if that number slides it really kills profits. I guess what I’m saying is that the incentives are aligned here: property managers want to see units occupied, and so does everyone else. Will they lower prices until 100% occupancy? No, there needs to be some unoccupied units or there would be no liquidity in the market (if there are no houses to rent and you want to move to a city, how could you move?).
  - klyrs 4y ago
    > I guess what I’m saying is that the incentives are aligned here: property managers want to see units occupied, and so does everyone else. It sounds like you're using the intuition of a person who hasn't captured a major portion of the rental market. You're going so far as telling me that property managers wouldn't do what the people involved with the company say they're doing. Needless to say, I'm not convinced.
alcover 4y ago
> Algorithms are a popular outrage-bait right now Oh yes. Media often lament people radicalizing online supposedly because of them. But nobody is forced to follow recommendations, which are moreover labelled as such. People stay logged-in and indulge on them, and that's it.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  That same reasoning would seem to apply to heroin, wouldn't it?
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    And likewise, it seems silly to blame heroin for people being driven to use it. Heroin ain't exactly a recreational drug; people turn to it because they're in extreme suffering, be it physical (due to health issues) or mental/emotional (due to socioeconomic hardship), and need an escape. Addressing those concerns would address heroin use (and swaths of other issues, like violent crime).

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

Because supply and demand itself is ridiculously broad. I don't even see people claim it isn't S&D given so many say anything from "build more housing" to "slackers go earn more money / save more", but saying supply & demand is the underlying problem is about as useful as saying the needle is in the haystack.

klyrs 4y ago

The problem isn't "the algorithm," the article is exceedingly clear that the problem is "the company" and "the captured market" but mostly collusion by proxy. But in this case, it's also the algorithm -- the article has multiple quotes where "empathy" is seen as a problem and that getting humans out of the loop is a boon to profit. The algorithm itself isn't the problem, it's the bloody-minded profit-seeking where capitalists leverage trust in the algorithm to extract maximum rents by leaving properties vacant in the midst of a housing crunch.

ajhurliman 4y ago
Leaving properties vacant is an absolute killer to revenue. I’m reading a lot of people in this discussion cite that property managers are comfortable with vacant units because of all the extra money they’re making off of raising the rents, but you’d need to raise them an incredible amount to justify even a single month of vacancy. Normally 5% is reasonable, but if that number slides it really kills profits. I guess what I’m saying is that the incentives are aligned here: property managers want to see units occupied, and so does everyone else. Will they lower prices until 100% occupancy? No, there needs to be some unoccupied units or there would be no liquidity in the market (if there are no houses to rent and you want to move to a city, how could you move?).
- klyrs 4y ago
  > I guess what I’m saying is that the incentives are aligned here: property managers want to see units occupied, and so does everyone else. It sounds like you're using the intuition of a person who hasn't captured a major portion of the rental market. You're going so far as telling me that property managers wouldn't do what the people involved with the company say they're doing. Needless to say, I'm not convinced.

alcover 4y ago

> Algorithms are a popular outrage-bait right now Oh yes. Media often lament people radicalizing online supposedly because of them. But nobody is forced to follow recommendations, which are moreover labelled as such. People stay logged-in and indulge on them, and that's it.

hotpotamus 4y ago
That same reasoning would seem to apply to heroin, wouldn't it?
- yellowapple 4y ago
  And likewise, it seems silly to blame heroin for people being driven to use it. Heroin ain't exactly a recreational drug; people turn to it because they're in extreme suffering, be it physical (due to health issues) or mental/emotional (due to socioeconomic hardship), and need an escape. Addressing those concerns would address heroin use (and swaths of other issues, like violent crime).