4 ms·

If developers aren't building housing for families higher on the SES ladder, that's generally a result of regulatory issues.

klyrs 4y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by "higher on the SES ladder" because the "young renters" in this case are Amazon employees with ridiculous disposable income. They are high on the SES ladder, it's the lower rungs that are getting priced out of the market.
mantas 4y ago
It’s complex. Usually the max price people are willing to pay is mortgage they may get from a bank. So developers who want to push margin can build smaller apartments and still sell for the same price. With fancy marketing how tiny apartments and DINK is cool. We have same issue in my city. New apartments are 40-50sqm 2 rooms (1 bedroom + kitchen-living room) or 60-70sqm 3 rooms (2 bedrooms + kitchen-living room ) at best. If you want family-sized housing, house in suburbia is pretty much the only option.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Detached homes are better for families in many ways, second would be townhomes then row homes and finally apartments. Sadly many apartments are not built to withstand a screaming child in a neighboring unit. When the children are older those things don’t matter quite as much, but by that time people often can afford to move to more space.
  - aeternum 4y ago
    Even though most apartments are not built to withstand a screaming child in the neighboring unit, it's not actually that hard to do and it is relatively cheap. Just needs double-drywall and a little caulk.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      I'm now picturing moving into an apartment and surreptitiously installing an extra layer of drywall. Will the landlord notice the rooms are all 2" smaller?
      - bombcar 4y ago
        You could probably get away with it - and in many cases, if you're a renter and offer to make a capital improvement to the property, the landlord will go along with it. The bigger the landlord is, the harder it could be, but for single family homes, if you're renting and want to add a deck and are willing to pay, talk to your landlord. There are risks (landlord evicts you right after you build it, etc) but those can be mitigated.
    - danaris 4y ago
      Right—the problem is not that building apartments that actually support people's needs (beyond the bare minimum) is impossible, it's that it costs more money than the bare minimum to do so. And if there are no sound-dampening apartments available in a particular area and price range, then the apartments you're trying to rent out not having them isn't a competitive disadvantage, so why bother?
  - mantas 4y ago
    I agree it's better as an isolated thing. But there're many caveats with infrastructure. Which is either expensive or you have to deal with it in very creative ways. In both cases city government needs to look out for more than real estate moguls interests... Now city government acts surprised why developers build so nice tiny apartments, yet suburbia is growing at fast pace. Who could think that if you give out permits for mostly tiny apartments in gigantic apartment blocks, people will find other ways and try to fix the problem in rather anarchistic ways.

klyrs 4y ago

I'm not sure what you mean by "higher on the SES ladder" because the "young renters" in this case are Amazon employees with ridiculous disposable income. They are high on the SES ladder, it's the lower rungs that are getting priced out of the market.

mantas 4y ago

It’s complex. Usually the max price people are willing to pay is mortgage they may get from a bank. So developers who want to push margin can build smaller apartments and still sell for the same price. With fancy marketing how tiny apartments and DINK is cool. We have same issue in my city. New apartments are 40-50sqm 2 rooms (1 bedroom + kitchen-living room) or 60-70sqm 3 rooms (2 bedrooms + kitchen-living room ) at best. If you want family-sized housing, house in suburbia is pretty much the only option.

bombcar 4y ago
Detached homes are better for families in many ways, second would be townhomes then row homes and finally apartments. Sadly many apartments are not built to withstand a screaming child in a neighboring unit. When the children are older those things don’t matter quite as much, but by that time people often can afford to move to more space.
- aeternum 4y ago
  Even though most apartments are not built to withstand a screaming child in the neighboring unit, it's not actually that hard to do and it is relatively cheap. Just needs double-drywall and a little caulk.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    I'm now picturing moving into an apartment and surreptitiously installing an extra layer of drywall. Will the landlord notice the rooms are all 2" smaller?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      You could probably get away with it - and in many cases, if you're a renter and offer to make a capital improvement to the property, the landlord will go along with it. The bigger the landlord is, the harder it could be, but for single family homes, if you're renting and want to add a deck and are willing to pay, talk to your landlord. There are risks (landlord evicts you right after you build it, etc) but those can be mitigated.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Right—the problem is not that building apartments that actually support people's needs (beyond the bare minimum) is impossible, it's that it costs more money than the bare minimum to do so. And if there are no sound-dampening apartments available in a particular area and price range, then the apartments you're trying to rent out not having them isn't a competitive disadvantage, so why bother?
- mantas 4y ago
  I agree it's better as an isolated thing. But there're many caveats with infrastructure. Which is either expensive or you have to deal with it in very creative ways. In both cases city government needs to look out for more than real estate moguls interests... Now city government acts surprised why developers build so nice tiny apartments, yet suburbia is growing at fast pace. Who could think that if you give out permits for mostly tiny apartments in gigantic apartment blocks, people will find other ways and try to fix the problem in rather anarchistic ways.