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Scam or not, I've said this before and I'll say it again: self driving is a side show. Electrification? Yes, important. Getting fewer people to own and use car

Scam or not, I've said this before and I'll say it again: self driving is a side show. Electrification? Yes, important. Getting fewer people to own and use cars altogether? Totally. But is self driving going to get us there? Think about it, all the reasons that people cite for wanting to own a car today will still be there. I don't see many people going "well now that it drives itself I won't need it in my driveway." Especially because for some fucked-up reason, the connection to "my car" is much more emotional than it should be. I'm from Germany and the attachment people have to these things is insane. There's actually some interesting psychoanalytical work about this.

slifin 4y ago
Yeah it's like a parasite how much attachment there is to cars People have lots of money and passion sunk into them Children's die cast cars, children's play mats that have road networks on, city builder games that are just car centric, car TV shows, children's movies There's lots of things in our cultural fabric that make it hard to imagine anything else I suppose it's quite similar to the promotion of guns, but here in the UK we heavily restrict access to guns
- joenot443 4y ago
  A lot of people on this site will spend hours and thousands of dollars perfecting their desktop configuration or their mechanical keyboard setup because it’s a token of their pride and joy and a manifestation of their livelihood. I’ve met people with the same level of love and dedication for their cars, it’s just an incredibly important part of life in North America.
  - black_puppydog 4y ago
    And there's a good debate to be had about the negative externalities of IT equipment, and short product release cycles! Personally I've taken to buying more second hand, and making sure my systems are upgradeable. But still, silicon and other IT stuff has insane footprints wrt water, CO2, and other pollutants... That being said, we can look at both. My point here was just that self-driving will not magically make the world better. It will, if it ever works, make cars more convenient for the people inside. But it will not address the big problems with cars, which are all about the people outside and the environment.
SyzygistSix 4y ago
>the connection to "my car" is much more emotional than it should be. Who is anyone to say how anyone "should" feel? Or "should" do anything? If you had said "more emotional than it could be" you'd have a point. Cars provide people the ability to travel almost anywhere whenever they want. They also provide shelter and become personalized spaces. I think it is natural to have an attachment to something with those kinds of roles. They speak to very primal instincts and needs. I have a pretty strong attachment to one of my bicycles. Irrational? Sure. Human? You bet. The same goes for my best (for me) trumpet. When the economics of not owning a personal car make sense, they will become less important and there will be less attachment to them in this way, like folks in NYC have towards cabs.
- black_puppydog 4y ago
  > I have a pretty strong attachment to one of my bicycles Hey there fellow bike lover! Mine is a 1979 Peugeot racer and I bought it with literally my last money for the month as a student just because it was so freakin' pretty! :) Yes you have a point, it's difficult to judge what emotional attachment is "good" or "bad". But in a pretty objective way, cars have a lot of negative effects that e.g. bikes just don't. I also think it's kind of sad that we haven't found a way for people to feel physically safe without encasing themselves in literally a metric ton of metal. Sadder still that for many, cars provide shelter. Those roles could and should be better filled by other means, and would require less subsidy from society than car infrastructure demands. Plus, it would just be the decent thing to do. Besides, for many people (I'm seeing this in my own family at the moment) the idea that cars are cool and interesting is injected constantly, over and over again, everyday, it's really hard to do anything against. For starters if anyone knows good "matchbox" style bicycle toys, let me know, because I think I've exhausted the market after just two or three birthday gifts.
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    Wow. Me too. I had a 1980 or 81 Peugeot Super Vitus racer. So gorgeous. Regardless of functionality (and it was great), it was worth it just as industrial/mechanical art. I'm totally with you regarding your opinion on cars and how arbitrary our attachment to using them is in many situations. But after bicycle commuting for almost 25 years and seeing how uninterested people are, even "progressive" childless 20-somethings in a very walkable, rideable, progressive town with a good climate, I'm more apt to meet people where they are at and fix the problem we have (emissions from burning gasoline) rather than try to force people to redefine the problem and choose the solutions I prefer.
deleted 4y ago
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slifin 4y ago

Yeah it's like a parasite how much attachment there is to cars People have lots of money and passion sunk into them Children's die cast cars, children's play mats that have road networks on, city builder games that are just car centric, car TV shows, children's movies There's lots of things in our cultural fabric that make it hard to imagine anything else I suppose it's quite similar to the promotion of guns, but here in the UK we heavily restrict access to guns

joenot443 4y ago
A lot of people on this site will spend hours and thousands of dollars perfecting their desktop configuration or their mechanical keyboard setup because it’s a token of their pride and joy and a manifestation of their livelihood. I’ve met people with the same level of love and dedication for their cars, it’s just an incredibly important part of life in North America.
- black_puppydog 4y ago
  And there's a good debate to be had about the negative externalities of IT equipment, and short product release cycles! Personally I've taken to buying more second hand, and making sure my systems are upgradeable. But still, silicon and other IT stuff has insane footprints wrt water, CO2, and other pollutants... That being said, we can look at both. My point here was just that self-driving will not magically make the world better. It will, if it ever works, make cars more convenient for the people inside. But it will not address the big problems with cars, which are all about the people outside and the environment.

SyzygistSix 4y ago

>the connection to "my car" is much more emotional than it should be. Who is anyone to say how anyone "should" feel? Or "should" do anything? If you had said "more emotional than it could be" you'd have a point. Cars provide people the ability to travel almost anywhere whenever they want. They also provide shelter and become personalized spaces. I think it is natural to have an attachment to something with those kinds of roles. They speak to very primal instincts and needs. I have a pretty strong attachment to one of my bicycles. Irrational? Sure. Human? You bet. The same goes for my best (for me) trumpet. When the economics of not owning a personal car make sense, they will become less important and there will be less attachment to them in this way, like folks in NYC have towards cabs.

black_puppydog 4y ago
> I have a pretty strong attachment to one of my bicycles Hey there fellow bike lover! Mine is a 1979 Peugeot racer and I bought it with literally my last money for the month as a student just because it was so freakin' pretty! :) Yes you have a point, it's difficult to judge what emotional attachment is "good" or "bad". But in a pretty objective way, cars have a lot of negative effects that e.g. bikes just don't. I also think it's kind of sad that we haven't found a way for people to feel physically safe without encasing themselves in literally a metric ton of metal. Sadder still that for many, cars provide shelter. Those roles could and should be better filled by other means, and would require less subsidy from society than car infrastructure demands. Plus, it would just be the decent thing to do. Besides, for many people (I'm seeing this in my own family at the moment) the idea that cars are cool and interesting is injected constantly, over and over again, everyday, it's really hard to do anything against. For starters if anyone knows good "matchbox" style bicycle toys, let me know, because I think I've exhausted the market after just two or three birthday gifts.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  Wow. Me too. I had a 1980 or 81 Peugeot Super Vitus racer. So gorgeous. Regardless of functionality (and it was great), it was worth it just as industrial/mechanical art. I'm totally with you regarding your opinion on cars and how arbitrary our attachment to using them is in many situations. But after bicycle commuting for almost 25 years and seeing how uninterested people are, even "progressive" childless 20-somethings in a very walkable, rideable, progressive town with a good climate, I'm more apt to meet people where they are at and fix the problem we have (emissions from burning gasoline) rather than try to force people to redefine the problem and choose the solutions I prefer.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]