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The program looks great however whenever I use a node based editor(blenders comes to mind) I can't help but wish there was a better way. I am not a fan of the s

by somat 4y ago

The program looks great however whenever I use a node based editor(blenders comes to mind) I can't help but wish there was a better way. I am not a fan of the spaghetti and meatballs programing model. The best I could come up with was to put the nodes in a list, that is, make it 1d. with virtual lists to the left(to show sources) and the the right(to show drains). then it would be sortable and well ordered. but I am not a very good front end programmer, so have not made a mockup to see if it is any better. The next thing that comes to mind is that as a programmer we deal with graphs all the time in the form of source code. That might be a better interface. I for one gain all sorts of utility from my code being in text form. Plus you would now be able to add logic to your processing graph... I am not sure whether or not this would be a mark for or against a code based system. Having said that, there would need to be a fair amount of care put into designing a programing language for building video edit pipelines. I don't know exactly what it needs. but I have tried to use ffmpeg in this role... and the best that can be said is that it is very awkward.

msk-lywenn 4y ago
A nice alternative to spaghetti nodes is brick stack, as first developed by demogroup farbrausch in their tool werkkzeug. You stack the bricks on top of each other and it flows from top to bottom. When one brick can have more than one input, you just extend it horizontally and have several bricks on top of it, read from left to right like arguments to a function. Editing the properties of the bricks is done in a different window as bricks must have the same height. Tooll then extended the concept by allowing spaghetti and brick together, making it easier to have loops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-GU4I5Xv_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-GU4I5Xv_g
- ilkke 4y ago
  Renoise uses a similar brick stack system for signal flow. Not sure I'd want to swap it for nodes. That said, I love nodes in Blender, Twine, Sunvox, Shadergraph, etc, but every node-based programming system I saw so far was torture.
KaiserPro 4y ago
for complex stuff, node is the only way. afterfx is the king of layers, and that gets impenetrable pretty quick. The best way to deal with the spaghetti is to group and route. In Nuke, you can group a bunch of nodes into lump with defined input/outputs. This means that you can hide the complexity underneath and limit the amount of "wire spread" Node based systems are really good for hooking things up and testing/altering. It also quickly, clearly and obviously shows data flow. Not all node displays are created equal. Anything that has bendy lines is a non starter (there is a reason Printed Circuit Boards rarely use curvy lines) Anything that doesn't have a group & hide function is also doomed. Its like having a programming language that doesn't have a functions, only goto.
- dubya 4y ago
  Your description of node displays reminds me of "Robot Odyssey".
alexvoda 4y ago
If you want to edit video in a programmatic way you should look into AviSynth and the more recent VapourSynth. Maybe also into using GEGL filters in a GStreamer graph but I do not know if a tool that does this was ever developed. There used to be plans to create an editor (I think it was node based) based on GEGL.

by somat 4y ago

msk-lywenn 4y ago

A nice alternative to spaghetti nodes is brick stack, as first developed by demogroup farbrausch in their tool werkkzeug. You stack the bricks on top of each other and it flows from top to bottom. When one brick can have more than one input, you just extend it horizontally and have several bricks on top of it, read from left to right like arguments to a function. Editing the properties of the bricks is done in a different window as bricks must have the same height. Tooll then extended the concept by allowing spaghetti and brick together, making it easier to have loops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-GU4I5Xv_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-GU4I5Xv_g

ilkke 4y ago
Renoise uses a similar brick stack system for signal flow. Not sure I'd want to swap it for nodes. That said, I love nodes in Blender, Twine, Sunvox, Shadergraph, etc, but every node-based programming system I saw so far was torture.

KaiserPro 4y ago

for complex stuff, node is the only way. afterfx is the king of layers, and that gets impenetrable pretty quick. The best way to deal with the spaghetti is to group and route. In Nuke, you can group a bunch of nodes into lump with defined input/outputs. This means that you can hide the complexity underneath and limit the amount of "wire spread" Node based systems are really good for hooking things up and testing/altering. It also quickly, clearly and obviously shows data flow. Not all node displays are created equal. Anything that has bendy lines is a non starter (there is a reason Printed Circuit Boards rarely use curvy lines) Anything that doesn't have a group & hide function is also doomed. Its like having a programming language that doesn't have a functions, only goto.

dubya 4y ago
Your description of node displays reminds me of "Robot Odyssey".

alexvoda 4y ago

If you want to edit video in a programmatic way you should look into AviSynth and the more recent VapourSynth. Maybe also into using GEGL filters in a GStreamer graph but I do not know if a tool that does this was ever developed. There used to be plans to create an editor (I think it was node based) based on GEGL.