6 ms·

I'm not sure I understand the importance of these hackers being Indian as opposed as from any other region?

by pempem 4y ago

jotm 4y ago
Law firm being cheap? Or Indians being dangerous, I guess...
ganoushoreilly 4y ago
> https://archive.ph/YegWz https://archive.ph/YegWz They're accusing a specific group of for hire hackers (BellTroX and CyberRoot) in Delhi.
edge17 4y ago
My guess is it has to do with Reuters editorial positioning on what's going on with Ukraine and Russia. I agree though, I don't see the relevance.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
SynAck6 4y ago
I get your point, but I'm assuming it's more about the fact that it's relatively cheap labour and difficult to investigate.
WFHRenaissance 4y ago
1. Foreign hacking groups are often beyond the reach of Western law enforcement. If a domestic threat had been to blame here, there would be legal/financial recourse for damage done. That's not the case here. Implicit in this article is the report of a new kind of warfare for which many Americans have no good defense against. 2. Standard editorial racism a la "The Oriental Threat".
- greggsy 4y ago
  I don’t think number 2 is at play here - the use of Indian hackers-for-hire has been topical in the cyber security industry recently.
  - jstarfish 4y ago
    ...and before that, it was synonymous with tech support scams and outsourcing fraud for decades.
- 4oo4 4y ago
  Is that also why this is a civil suit and not criminal charges under the CFAA?
  - b112 4y ago
    Civil court has a lower bar for guilt, is one difference.
  - Thorrez 4y ago
    Can a victim file charges under the CFAA? I think only the government can do that.
- fareesh 4y ago
  Indians will read this and not once think of racism Reminds me of the "voter ID is racist" argument
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    No i too was confused why indian needed mentioning
    - fareesh 4y ago
      - Because Indian in this context is not a reference to the ethnicity but of location - i.e. it's not the DNA of the people that is Indian, it's the borders in which they are physically present while hacking. Many are unaware that India has a lot of phenotype diversity in its 1 billion people. There are dark skinned people in the south, light skinned people in the north, and almond shape eyed people in the east. Merely saying "Indian" does not really paint an image of anyone since we all look different, so it's a bit strange to allege racism. - Because just mentioning it adds the following dimensions to the headline: geopolitics, outsourcing, human resources in the developing world, cybercrime & jurisdiction challenges - Because it's allegedly true
InCityDreams 4y ago
'Cus they were from India?
- pempem 4y ago
  Haha, yes ofc. It was a tremendously minor part of the article seemingly and yet made it to the headline
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
duxup 4y ago
Seems relevant to the difficulty in investigating and getting any sort of justice.
greggsy 4y ago
Incidents and stories related to Indian hackers-for-hire have been rising in the past couple of years. A few companies have built a workable model out of it. It’s relevant context from the cyber security industry perspective, tangentially related in this case.
puchatek 4y ago
Maybe you missed this sentence while reading the article? "Solomon’s suit is the latest in a series of legal actions that follows Reuters’ reporting about hired hackers operating out of India."
- pempem 4y ago
  I did, thanks. Since I missed that sentence it seemed odd compared to hackers out of Romania or anywhere else.
  - devmor 4y ago
    It's because it's a relatively new occurrence. Likely due to the rising employment crisis around the IT industries in the country. Baltic hackers have been around since the internet became mainstream really. The fall of the Soviet union lead to economic hardship in most of the areas well known for hacking - and those kids coming of age shortly after had the brand new age of information to take advantage of.
rosnd 4y ago
It's mostly India where these hackers operate like real companies with websites, offices, bank accounts, etc... BellTroX is well known and the Indian government seems to approve of their activities.
sandGorgon 4y ago
US and India have very enforceable bilateral cybercrime treaties. And it is very well enforced on both sides. The article makes it seem that India as a whole is operating in some North Korea-ish way. A US citizen can well complain to CERT-IN (https://www.cert-in.org.in/ https://www.cert-in.org.in/) for any reported cybercrime with proper documents and it will be treated as an enforceable crime. In fact, quite funny considering the US Chambers of Commerce have filed an appeal with CERT-IN that the compliance requirements are very stringent (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/cert-ins-requirements-may-make-it-difficult-to-do-business-in-india-business-groupings/articleshow/91842557.cms?from=mdr https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/cert-in...)
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > US and India have very enforceable bilateral cybercrime treaties. And it is very well enforced on both sides Is this documented? If true, I suspect the image of Indian criminals being beyond the reach of the law stems from the spam call problem.
  - malikNF 4y ago
    This[1] is one of the few results that comes up when you search for the keywords, fbi + justice + india + scam https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-based-call-centers-sentenced-prison-scamming-us-victims-out-millions https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-base...
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > one of the few results that comes up when you search for the keywords, fbi + justice + india + scam Your link [1] mentions no sign of Indian law enforcement. Instead, “Singapore authorities apprehended Patel at the request of the United States…after Patel flew there from India…charges remain pending for other India-based defendants.” [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-based-call-centers-sentenced-prison-scamming-us-victims-out-millions https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-base...
joshxyz 4y ago
to me it's not racist, it just tells me more how competitive indians are when it comes to the tech industry. during our college days our profs literalt recommended studying online resources in youtube made by indians, because they got better coverage than most of our curriculum. we laugh at their accent but we owe them a lot.
MikePlacid 4y ago
More important than a nationality of the hackers (to me at least) is the personality of the payer for services. It’s clearly mentioned in the article: Solomon and Azima allege that Dechert undertook the hack-and-leak operation in the interest of its client, Sheikh Saud bin Saqr al-Qasimi, ruler of the Middle Eastern emirate of Ras Al Khaimah. What kind of gun was used in a killing is much less important than who paid for the killing, no?
P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
Where they not hackers from india?

I'm not sure I understand the importance of these hackers being Indian as opposed as from any other region?

by pempem 4y ago

I'm not sure I understand the importance of these hackers being Indian as opposed as from any other region?

jotm 4y ago

Law firm being cheap? Or Indians being dangerous, I guess...

ganoushoreilly 4y ago

> https://archive.ph/YegWz https://archive.ph/YegWz They're accusing a specific group of for hire hackers (BellTroX and CyberRoot) in Delhi.

edge17 4y ago

My guess is it has to do with Reuters editorial positioning on what's going on with Ukraine and Russia. I agree though, I don't see the relevance.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

SynAck6 4y ago

I get your point, but I'm assuming it's more about the fact that it's relatively cheap labour and difficult to investigate.

WFHRenaissance 4y ago

1. Foreign hacking groups are often beyond the reach of Western law enforcement. If a domestic threat had been to blame here, there would be legal/financial recourse for damage done. That's not the case here. Implicit in this article is the report of a new kind of warfare for which many Americans have no good defense against. 2. Standard editorial racism a la "The Oriental Threat".

greggsy 4y ago
I don’t think number 2 is at play here - the use of Indian hackers-for-hire has been topical in the cyber security industry recently.
- jstarfish 4y ago
  ...and before that, it was synonymous with tech support scams and outsourcing fraud for decades.
4oo4 4y ago
Is that also why this is a civil suit and not criminal charges under the CFAA?
- b112 4y ago
  Civil court has a lower bar for guilt, is one difference.
- Thorrez 4y ago
  Can a victim file charges under the CFAA? I think only the government can do that.
fareesh 4y ago
Indians will read this and not once think of racism Reminds me of the "voter ID is racist" argument
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  No i too was confused why indian needed mentioning
  - fareesh 4y ago
    - Because Indian in this context is not a reference to the ethnicity but of location - i.e. it's not the DNA of the people that is Indian, it's the borders in which they are physically present while hacking. Many are unaware that India has a lot of phenotype diversity in its 1 billion people. There are dark skinned people in the south, light skinned people in the north, and almond shape eyed people in the east. Merely saying "Indian" does not really paint an image of anyone since we all look different, so it's a bit strange to allege racism. - Because just mentioning it adds the following dimensions to the headline: geopolitics, outsourcing, human resources in the developing world, cybercrime & jurisdiction challenges - Because it's allegedly true

InCityDreams 4y ago

'Cus they were from India?

pempem 4y ago
Haha, yes ofc. It was a tremendously minor part of the article seemingly and yet made it to the headline

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

duxup 4y ago

Seems relevant to the difficulty in investigating and getting any sort of justice.

greggsy 4y ago

Incidents and stories related to Indian hackers-for-hire have been rising in the past couple of years. A few companies have built a workable model out of it. It’s relevant context from the cyber security industry perspective, tangentially related in this case.

puchatek 4y ago

Maybe you missed this sentence while reading the article? "Solomon’s suit is the latest in a series of legal actions that follows Reuters’ reporting about hired hackers operating out of India."

pempem 4y ago
I did, thanks. Since I missed that sentence it seemed odd compared to hackers out of Romania or anywhere else.
- devmor 4y ago
  It's because it's a relatively new occurrence. Likely due to the rising employment crisis around the IT industries in the country. Baltic hackers have been around since the internet became mainstream really. The fall of the Soviet union lead to economic hardship in most of the areas well known for hacking - and those kids coming of age shortly after had the brand new age of information to take advantage of.

rosnd 4y ago

It's mostly India where these hackers operate like real companies with websites, offices, bank accounts, etc... BellTroX is well known and the Indian government seems to approve of their activities.

sandGorgon 4y ago

US and India have very enforceable bilateral cybercrime treaties. And it is very well enforced on both sides. The article makes it seem that India as a whole is operating in some North Korea-ish way. A US citizen can well complain to CERT-IN (https://www.cert-in.org.in/ https://www.cert-in.org.in/) for any reported cybercrime with proper documents and it will be treated as an enforceable crime. In fact, quite funny considering the US Chambers of Commerce have filed an appeal with CERT-IN that the compliance requirements are very stringent (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/cert-ins-requirements-may-make-it-difficult-to-do-business-in-india-business-groupings/articleshow/91842557.cms?from=mdr https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/cert-in...)

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> US and India have very enforceable bilateral cybercrime treaties. And it is very well enforced on both sides Is this documented? If true, I suspect the image of Indian criminals being beyond the reach of the law stems from the spam call problem.
- malikNF 4y ago
  This[1] is one of the few results that comes up when you search for the keywords, fbi + justice + india + scam https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-based-call-centers-sentenced-prison-scamming-us-victims-out-millions https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-base...
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > one of the few results that comes up when you search for the keywords, fbi + justice + india + scam Your link [1] mentions no sign of Indian law enforcement. Instead, “Singapore authorities apprehended Patel at the request of the United States…after Patel flew there from India…charges remain pending for other India-based defendants.” [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-based-call-centers-sentenced-prison-scamming-us-victims-out-millions https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/owner-and-operator-india-base...

joshxyz 4y ago

to me it's not racist, it just tells me more how competitive indians are when it comes to the tech industry. during our college days our profs literalt recommended studying online resources in youtube made by indians, because they got better coverage than most of our curriculum. we laugh at their accent but we owe them a lot.

MikePlacid 4y ago

More important than a nationality of the hackers (to me at least) is the personality of the payer for services. It’s clearly mentioned in the article: Solomon and Azima allege that Dechert undertook the hack-and-leak operation in the interest of its client, Sheikh Saud bin Saqr al-Qasimi, ruler of the Middle Eastern emirate of Ras Al Khaimah. What kind of gun was used in a killing is much less important than who paid for the killing, no?

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

Where they not hackers from india?