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The MNT Reform 2 has a mechanical keyboard with a nice feel (and it's using off-the-shelf switches so you can replace them if you'd prefer), but it has a weird

The MNT Reform 2 has a mechanical keyboard with a nice feel (and it's using off-the-shelf switches so you can replace them if you'd prefer), but it has a weird layout. The most recent laptops with an actual nice Thinkpad keyboard were X220 or T420, everything after that is chiclets.

scrlk 4y ago
> The most recent laptops with an actual nice Thinkpad keyboard were X220 or T420, everything after that is chiclets. I agree that the Sandy Bridge era (2011) ThinkPads were the last to have a proper 7 row keyboard layout, but there's slightly more to it. ThinkPad keyboards are made by a variety of OEMs. For the 2011 models, the manufacturers were NMB, Chicony and Alps. The consensus within the ThinkPad enthusiast community is that keyboards from NMB offered the best typing feel, followed Chicony and finally Alps. You can tell if you have a NMB keyboard by carefully prising off one of the keycaps: if you see a red rubber dome, it's a NMB keyboard. (grey = Chicony; white = Alps). Each keyboard manufacturer has a unique part number (FRU - field replaceable unit in the IBM/Lenovo parlance). Online sellers often mix and match FRUs, so it can't be relied upon to get the NMB keyboard - you need to ask the seller what colour the domes are. The NMB keyboards are sadly becoming more rare and expensive by the day. FWIW, chiclet machines often had better feel than the 7-row predecessors. E.g. T440p with non-backlit keyboard. This is due to improvements in chassis design - the T440p's magnesium alloy rollcage was solid underneath the keyboard, resulting in 0 keyboard flex.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Agreed. Of course the *40 series had a unique feature of getting security and infra architect consultants to slam them repeatedly on the office desks in clients' offices, due to their special and innovative combined top trackpad / trackpoint buttons :D (I hear ThinkPad is trying that a abomination again, which means my t25 may have to live another 5 years)
  - jtwaleson 4y ago
    The trackpad is horrible on the *40 series! Can be swapped by the one from the ones from the next generation though.
  - midislack 4y ago
    Your T25 will end up like mine, with a cracked case because of poor design.
    - NikolaNovak 4y ago
      Possibly; I did drop it from large height onto hard floor once, and ever so slightly cracked a corner. A little black sugru fixed it up like new. It survived 3 years of weekly travels before covid otherwise, and several years of young kids since, so I'm hopeful that case won't be a problem.
      - midislack 4y ago
        There is a structural issue with the right side hinge, it's mounted in plastic.
rollcat 4y ago
You can also mod an X230 or a T430 with a xx20 keyboard, which is worth it as the CPU/GPU and USB ports are all a decent upgrade. You need to flash the embedded controller though, to remap the keys - also worth it, to use a third-party battery. The process is not too difficult, you just need to compile the stuff, make a bootable flash drive, and boot from it - no soldering etc. https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec

scrlk 4y ago

> The most recent laptops with an actual nice Thinkpad keyboard were X220 or T420, everything after that is chiclets. I agree that the Sandy Bridge era (2011) ThinkPads were the last to have a proper 7 row keyboard layout, but there's slightly more to it. ThinkPad keyboards are made by a variety of OEMs. For the 2011 models, the manufacturers were NMB, Chicony and Alps. The consensus within the ThinkPad enthusiast community is that keyboards from NMB offered the best typing feel, followed Chicony and finally Alps. You can tell if you have a NMB keyboard by carefully prising off one of the keycaps: if you see a red rubber dome, it's a NMB keyboard. (grey = Chicony; white = Alps). Each keyboard manufacturer has a unique part number (FRU - field replaceable unit in the IBM/Lenovo parlance). Online sellers often mix and match FRUs, so it can't be relied upon to get the NMB keyboard - you need to ask the seller what colour the domes are. The NMB keyboards are sadly becoming more rare and expensive by the day. FWIW, chiclet machines often had better feel than the 7-row predecessors. E.g. T440p with non-backlit keyboard. This is due to improvements in chassis design - the T440p's magnesium alloy rollcage was solid underneath the keyboard, resulting in 0 keyboard flex.

NikolaNovak 4y ago
Agreed. Of course the *40 series had a unique feature of getting security and infra architect consultants to slam them repeatedly on the office desks in clients' offices, due to their special and innovative combined top trackpad / trackpoint buttons :D (I hear ThinkPad is trying that a abomination again, which means my t25 may have to live another 5 years)
- jtwaleson 4y ago
  The trackpad is horrible on the *40 series! Can be swapped by the one from the ones from the next generation though.
- midislack 4y ago
  Your T25 will end up like mine, with a cracked case because of poor design.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Possibly; I did drop it from large height onto hard floor once, and ever so slightly cracked a corner. A little black sugru fixed it up like new. It survived 3 years of weekly travels before covid otherwise, and several years of young kids since, so I'm hopeful that case won't be a problem.
    - midislack 4y ago
      There is a structural issue with the right side hinge, it's mounted in plastic.

rollcat 4y ago

You can also mod an X230 or a T430 with a xx20 keyboard, which is worth it as the CPU/GPU and USB ports are all a decent upgrade. You need to flash the embedded controller though, to remap the keys - also worth it, to use a third-party battery. The process is not too difficult, you just need to compile the stuff, make a bootable flash drive, and boot from it - no soldering etc. https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec https://github.com/hamishcoleman/thinkpad-ec