5 ms·

I am the 1% of Student Loan Debt

5 points by tibbon 15y ago

kls 15y ago
Sallie Mae and all of the banks that pushed changes so that bankruptcy couldn’t happen for student loans are just greedy and really shouldn’t be allowed to offer these loans. The bankruptcy reform bill was the biggest assault on citizens right that has happened over the last few years and almost no one took notice. America was founded on the principal of debt amnesty, in which a citizen at any time could based on their own analysis of their situation could absolve themselves from the burden of their debt. In doing so the owner of their debt would liquidate their assets and take to proceeds. The debtor was then free to try to rebuild. This institution was created because any other construct, will inevitably lead to slavery and create a debtors nation. They studied the factors that created debtors prisons in Europe and wanted to avoid the pitfalls of a nation built on debt burden. Because it is a nation built on slavery. The fact that an institution as old as the founding fathers was changed on the eve of the collapse bears more than coincidence. Student Loans are the most over leveraged product on the market, what is worse is they are not backed by an asset that can be liquidated. Knowing this and seeing the collapse coming the lobbyist and politicians quickly worked to place safeguards into place to keep the house of cards from coming down. Coincidentally the timing of the move is damning evidence to the fact that not only the financial industry but also the politicians knew the collapse was coming. The instituted the means test as a way to strap homeowners to underwater mortgages and outright removed student loans from consideration. It was the most blatant display of politicians putting business interest before the people. They did everything in their power to strap us to the debt of poor choices while simultaneously working to form legislation to bail out businesses that made equally poor chooses. I implore each and every one of you, to look at the bankruptcy reform bill and who voted for it and vote them out. They have shown that they are now overtly and directly working against your interest. It is a huge assault on your rights, while you may never need the relief those rights afforded, if you do you will find that they have blocked your ability to start over, denying you of rights when you need them the most. It is a heinous attack on the rights of the citizenry.
- anamax 15y ago
  >> Sallie Mae and all of the banks that pushed changes so that bankruptcy couldn’t happen for student loans are just greedy and really shouldn’t be allowed to offer these loans. > The bankruptcy reform bill had nothing to do with the non-dischargability (can't get out of with bankruptcy) of student loan debts. That change happened in 1998. > almost no one took notice. Speak for yourself. > The fact that an institution as old as the founding fathers was changed on the eve of the collapse bears more than coincidence. Bankruptcy laws have changed many times since "the founding fathers".
  - kls 15y ago
    had nothing to do with the non-dischargability (can't get out of with bankruptcy) of student loan debts. That change happened in 1998. Thanks for the info, I thought I read that they where both in the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act in 05. I was unaware of a previous bill. And I do understand that the laws have been change previous to the 05 and 98, but my understanding of the law is that it was the first such attempt to restrict the people who could file for chapter 7 AKA total discharge of debt, therefore pushing them into a 13, requiring a judge to garnish a large portion of the income for 5 years before they can be declared free from the responsibility of having the service the debt.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
anamax 15y ago
Why do I get the impression that if he hadn't been loaned money to get that degree, he'd have complained about that? The lesson that I'm getting out of this is a that a lot of people shouldn't be in college and/or shouldn't be allowed to choose their major.
- kls 15y ago
  I think the article covers the issue pretty well, collage to many was as inevitable as buying a house, it was so ingrained into cultural norms that the though of not going never even crossed his mind. There are cultural forces and norms that have a strong influence on peoples actions without them even contemplating an alternative point of view or the ramification of the action. Cultural wisdom and norms like "put your money in real estate, it never goes down", "we are a military family" or "Everyone in my family goes to college" are strong subconsciously influencing factors, to just put it on the person alone ignores a lot of factors that got us into this mess.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - anamax 15y ago
    > I think the article covers the issue pretty well, collage to many was as inevitable as buying a house, it was so ingrained into cultural norms that the though of not going never even crossed his mind. Is that "ingrain" stronger than "He was just following orders"? I ask because few people accept the latter excuse. > Cultural wisdom and norms like "put your money in real estate, it never goes down", That sounds like a lame excuse, as real estate is one of the classic cycles.
    - kls 15y ago
      That sounds like a lame excuse, as real estate is one of the classic cycles It may sound lame to you, but what you fail to see is perspective, many people listen to that cultural wisdom and many people do "just follow orders" it's the reason we have this mess. Are they totally blameless? no. should they have researched what they where getting into? yes. But both of those require someone actually even beginning to think it through in the first place and that is the point. When it comes to social norms like this, because of socital habits they don't even think. Just like the guy just following orders, he did not think through his actions. Does that absolve them from guilt or responsibility? no. Does it mean we should reflect on how it happened and have empathy? yes. But just like the guy following orders, the system that indoctrinated him into not thinking requires some of the scorn and blame. Hitler was just as much to blame as the guard. It's preposterous to view it any other way. To do so, absolves guilty parties of their burden of the blame. It's not that the author is not guilty of failing to think, it is that the system is also guilty of conditioning children in that manner. We (society, the education system, finance) share the blame, whether you like that fact or not. From your perspective you see them as excuses for the author to be blameless for his actions. From my perspective, he is not the only accountable party. Just as in real estate, it is not an excuse that people don't understand cycles, but it is a reality that people relying on "cultural wisdom" invested in real estate "because it is the safest investment". The fact that they did not even know what a cycle was, does not absolve them from responsibility for their action, but it does not absolve us as a society for perpetuating that "cultural wisdom". Life is never that cut and dry, telling a person to suck it up because you believe it is an excuse, does nothing to address the systemic issues at play, that are just as responsible as the individual.

5 points by tibbon 15y ago

kls 15y ago

Sallie Mae and all of the banks that pushed changes so that bankruptcy couldn’t happen for student loans are just greedy and really shouldn’t be allowed to offer these loans. The bankruptcy reform bill was the biggest assault on citizens right that has happened over the last few years and almost no one took notice. America was founded on the principal of debt amnesty, in which a citizen at any time could based on their own analysis of their situation could absolve themselves from the burden of their debt. In doing so the owner of their debt would liquidate their assets and take to proceeds. The debtor was then free to try to rebuild. This institution was created because any other construct, will inevitably lead to slavery and create a debtors nation. They studied the factors that created debtors prisons in Europe and wanted to avoid the pitfalls of a nation built on debt burden. Because it is a nation built on slavery. The fact that an institution as old as the founding fathers was changed on the eve of the collapse bears more than coincidence. Student Loans are the most over leveraged product on the market, what is worse is they are not backed by an asset that can be liquidated. Knowing this and seeing the collapse coming the lobbyist and politicians quickly worked to place safeguards into place to keep the house of cards from coming down. Coincidentally the timing of the move is damning evidence to the fact that not only the financial industry but also the politicians knew the collapse was coming. The instituted the means test as a way to strap homeowners to underwater mortgages and outright removed student loans from consideration. It was the most blatant display of politicians putting business interest before the people. They did everything in their power to strap us to the debt of poor choices while simultaneously working to form legislation to bail out businesses that made equally poor chooses. I implore each and every one of you, to look at the bankruptcy reform bill and who voted for it and vote them out. They have shown that they are now overtly and directly working against your interest. It is a huge assault on your rights, while you may never need the relief those rights afforded, if you do you will find that they have blocked your ability to start over, denying you of rights when you need them the most. It is a heinous attack on the rights of the citizenry.

anamax 15y ago
>> Sallie Mae and all of the banks that pushed changes so that bankruptcy couldn’t happen for student loans are just greedy and really shouldn’t be allowed to offer these loans. > The bankruptcy reform bill had nothing to do with the non-dischargability (can't get out of with bankruptcy) of student loan debts. That change happened in 1998. > almost no one took notice. Speak for yourself. > The fact that an institution as old as the founding fathers was changed on the eve of the collapse bears more than coincidence. Bankruptcy laws have changed many times since "the founding fathers".
- kls 15y ago
  had nothing to do with the non-dischargability (can't get out of with bankruptcy) of student loan debts. That change happened in 1998. Thanks for the info, I thought I read that they where both in the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act in 05. I was unaware of a previous bill. And I do understand that the laws have been change previous to the 05 and 98, but my understanding of the law is that it was the first such attempt to restrict the people who could file for chapter 7 AKA total discharge of debt, therefore pushing them into a 13, requiring a judge to garnish a large portion of the income for 5 years before they can be declared free from the responsibility of having the service the debt.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]

anamax 15y ago

Why do I get the impression that if he hadn't been loaned money to get that degree, he'd have complained about that? The lesson that I'm getting out of this is a that a lot of people shouldn't be in college and/or shouldn't be allowed to choose their major.

kls 15y ago
I think the article covers the issue pretty well, collage to many was as inevitable as buying a house, it was so ingrained into cultural norms that the though of not going never even crossed his mind. There are cultural forces and norms that have a strong influence on peoples actions without them even contemplating an alternative point of view or the ramification of the action. Cultural wisdom and norms like "put your money in real estate, it never goes down", "we are a military family" or "Everyone in my family goes to college" are strong subconsciously influencing factors, to just put it on the person alone ignores a lot of factors that got us into this mess.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- anamax 15y ago
  > I think the article covers the issue pretty well, collage to many was as inevitable as buying a house, it was so ingrained into cultural norms that the though of not going never even crossed his mind. Is that "ingrain" stronger than "He was just following orders"? I ask because few people accept the latter excuse. > Cultural wisdom and norms like "put your money in real estate, it never goes down", That sounds like a lame excuse, as real estate is one of the classic cycles.
  - kls 15y ago
    That sounds like a lame excuse, as real estate is one of the classic cycles It may sound lame to you, but what you fail to see is perspective, many people listen to that cultural wisdom and many people do "just follow orders" it's the reason we have this mess. Are they totally blameless? no. should they have researched what they where getting into? yes. But both of those require someone actually even beginning to think it through in the first place and that is the point. When it comes to social norms like this, because of socital habits they don't even think. Just like the guy just following orders, he did not think through his actions. Does that absolve them from guilt or responsibility? no. Does it mean we should reflect on how it happened and have empathy? yes. But just like the guy following orders, the system that indoctrinated him into not thinking requires some of the scorn and blame. Hitler was just as much to blame as the guard. It's preposterous to view it any other way. To do so, absolves guilty parties of their burden of the blame. It's not that the author is not guilty of failing to think, it is that the system is also guilty of conditioning children in that manner. We (society, the education system, finance) share the blame, whether you like that fact or not. From your perspective you see them as excuses for the author to be blameless for his actions. From my perspective, he is not the only accountable party. Just as in real estate, it is not an excuse that people don't understand cycles, but it is a reality that people relying on "cultural wisdom" invested in real estate "because it is the safest investment". The fact that they did not even know what a cycle was, does not absolve them from responsibility for their action, but it does not absolve us as a society for perpetuating that "cultural wisdom". Life is never that cut and dry, telling a person to suck it up because you believe it is an excuse, does nothing to address the systemic issues at play, that are just as responsible as the individual.