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How does a company like this get to this point? It seems like every week I hear about how they have found a new way to fuck up?

xeromal 4y ago
It gets so big that people lose their ability to care. It's easy to care when you know your boss and your decisions can affect the 40-50 people at your company. When its thousands, you no longer care.
ricardobayes 4y ago
Even more dangerous is when they let the domains/subdomains expire. In this case anybody can grab the domain name and serve anything they want.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  There's a redemption grace period where the owner (and only the owner) can renew the domain. After that, anyone can pick it up, but accidentally letting a domain expire is "only" some downtime, and if you didn't notice during the month of grace period then it's probably okay to expire.
prvit 4y ago
What was the last fuckup of this scale from paypal which you can name?
- endigma 4y ago
  They decided that they are the moral police and will directly fine customers for being mean on the internet or doing anything else they alone decide they don't like. see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32945147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32945147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33151975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33151975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33134249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33134249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32980157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32980157 tldr: dumpster fire of a company, don't hold assets in a PayPal account and I wouldn't even add long-term payment methods.
  - prvit 4y ago
    So what about things which they have actually done?
    - endigma 4y ago
      Did you read any of the attached? They have banned people for no reason and decided the money in their account was forefit as a result, all of these things they have "actually done", I'm not sure what more you'd hope for them to do before declaring it bad? Updating user agreements with nonsensical statements, threatening users with "fines" without involving the court system at all? Declaring themselves capable of deciding what's acceptable internet conduct for their users to engage in? If these and all the attached threads don't seem like a red flag to you at all, I'd question what the hell does?
      - prvit 4y ago
        > If these and all the attached threads don't seem like a red flag to you at all, I'd question what the hell does? Everything described seems perfectly normal, it’s like this no matter which bank you work with. Paypal just attracts a lot of people who haven’t worked with payment processing before, so this naturally comes as a shock to them.
        endigma 4y ago
        Status Quo != Acceptable, even if other payment processors decide they are doing the same thing, PayPal also operates in large as a wallet of sorts, meaning it's not only commercial companies but users who are affected by this. Unclear writing means PayPal could "at their sole discretion" decide you tweeted (for example) something they didn't like or deemed against their user agreement and without involving the law at all just fine you for it? My personal bank has no such clauses in their user agreement, nor anything apart from their compliance with legal requests to freeze accounts. For users who treat PayPal like a sort of bank, this is a problem. I'd also like to see the clauses in Stripe, Square, etc agreements that parallel PayPal's position that they can decide who is doing mean things on the internet and fine them for it.

xeromal 4y ago

It gets so big that people lose their ability to care. It's easy to care when you know your boss and your decisions can affect the 40-50 people at your company. When its thousands, you no longer care.

ricardobayes 4y ago

Even more dangerous is when they let the domains/subdomains expire. In this case anybody can grab the domain name and serve anything they want.

Beltalowda 4y ago
There's a redemption grace period where the owner (and only the owner) can renew the domain. After that, anyone can pick it up, but accidentally letting a domain expire is "only" some downtime, and if you didn't notice during the month of grace period then it's probably okay to expire.

prvit 4y ago

What was the last fuckup of this scale from paypal which you can name?

endigma 4y ago
They decided that they are the moral police and will directly fine customers for being mean on the internet or doing anything else they alone decide they don't like. see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32945147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32945147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33151975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33151975 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33136147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33134249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33134249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32980157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32980157 tldr: dumpster fire of a company, don't hold assets in a PayPal account and I wouldn't even add long-term payment methods.
- prvit 4y ago
  So what about things which they have actually done?
  - endigma 4y ago
    Did you read any of the attached? They have banned people for no reason and decided the money in their account was forefit as a result, all of these things they have "actually done", I'm not sure what more you'd hope for them to do before declaring it bad? Updating user agreements with nonsensical statements, threatening users with "fines" without involving the court system at all? Declaring themselves capable of deciding what's acceptable internet conduct for their users to engage in? If these and all the attached threads don't seem like a red flag to you at all, I'd question what the hell does?
    - prvit 4y ago
      > If these and all the attached threads don't seem like a red flag to you at all, I'd question what the hell does? Everything described seems perfectly normal, it’s like this no matter which bank you work with. Paypal just attracts a lot of people who haven’t worked with payment processing before, so this naturally comes as a shock to them.
      - endigma 4y ago
        Status Quo != Acceptable, even if other payment processors decide they are doing the same thing, PayPal also operates in large as a wallet of sorts, meaning it's not only commercial companies but users who are affected by this. Unclear writing means PayPal could "at their sole discretion" decide you tweeted (for example) something they didn't like or deemed against their user agreement and without involving the law at all just fine you for it? My personal bank has no such clauses in their user agreement, nor anything apart from their compliance with legal requests to freeze accounts. For users who treat PayPal like a sort of bank, this is a problem. I'd also like to see the clauses in Stripe, Square, etc agreements that parallel PayPal's position that they can decide who is doing mean things on the internet and fine them for it.