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Just a reminder that the horseshoe theory isn't fact.
by mmanfrin 4y ago
Just a reminder that the horseshoe theory isn't fact.
- carabiner 4y agoThough with the dirtbag left now flirting with being "trad cath" and softening towards racial realism, it does seem like it's approach the intellectual fascism of the nazis.
- MarkMarine 4y agoThis is incorrect in its facts and framing. I’m not going to get into a long political discussion, this doesn’t seem the place for it, but I would implore you to look further into this before you start throwing words like fascism and nazi around when you’re talking about people who basically want to give everyone free healthcare.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y agoIs national socialism antithetical to free universal healthcare?
- MarkMarine 4y ago[flagged]
- nailer 4y agoThe nazis admitted they were inspired by socialism, nazism specifically had elements of class warfare. “goldfish brain” isn’t much of a response.
- goodpoint 4y agoThis is provably false. The nazi imprisoned and even exterminated socialists and communists as soon as they could.
- nailer 4y agoI don’t follow your logic- my statement was that that the nazis openly considered themselves socialists and class warfare was a huge part of nazi ideology. Your state that’s probably false - but then don’t prove either of those statements false. It’s entirely possible to fight between factions of the same side of politics.
- rosnd 4y agoClass warfare seems to be a standard part of far right ideology, from Trump crowd to European far right.
- nailer 4y agoTrump isn't far right. If you think he is you likely have very little knowledge of politics.
- rosnd 4y agoOr perhaps you have very little knowledge of politics? From a European perspective, Trump crowd is certainly far right. Shit, even most democrats would be right wing here.
- nailer 4y agoIn Europe. Trumps not advocating for an ethno state, political violence or anything else we’d typically associate with the far right.
- rosnd 4y agoTrump is not advocating for political violence? Huh. Well, I guess that's debatable. I'd argue that his election related claims are exactly that, if the elections are fraudulent what alternatives are there to solve that but violence? What other alternative could there be if the other party has truly pulled off such a coup? Trump also pushes extreme religious views, such as abortion bans (In fact, he claims the abortion ban to have been decided by God himself).
- heavyset_go 4y agoNazis piggybacked on the popularity of socialist movements at the time, but the Nazis were explicitly not Marxist-inspired socialists, they say so themselves. According to them, they re-appropriated the word to redefine it to something else, an ideology opposed to socialism that was meant to empower the Volk[1]. According to the Nazis, Marxism, socialism and communism were Jewish conspiracies to weaken the Volk. They chose to redefine the popular term so that it is explicitly divorced from its Marxist origins to mean something else entirely. Marxist socialism is explicitly about workers owning the means of production, while Nazism exalts the Volk and seeks to restore the domination of the German people/Volk. [1] https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken3...
- nailer 4y ago> they re-appropriated the word to redefine it to something else, an ideology opposed to socialism that was meant to empower the Volk I was referring to the exact writing you reference, and it does not support the point that nazism reappropriated the word to mean something else.
- heavyset_go 4y agoYes, the Nazi state existed for the Volk[1], the Nazis' economic policy was that of privatization[2] and Social Darwinism. Universal healthcare as implemented in Germany in the 1800's covered more groups than what the Nazis considered the Volk, depending on the implementation, free universal healthcare flies in the face of economic privatization, and Nazis' Social Darwinism said that the weak who can't take care of themselves should be culled. [1] https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler/Rise-to-power#ref249686 https://www.britannica.com/biography/Adolf-Hitler/Rise-to-po... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization#Etymology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privatization#Etymology
- bigDinosaur 4y agoYou can have authoritarian left and authoritarian right. That's not really related to healthcare. Authoritarians tend towards abuses of power - I kind of don't find it terribly relevant if millions were killed or imprisoned because of the differences in their ideals, which is what the horseshoe theory speaks to. What it speaks to is mainly that the methods - e.g. unconstrained power of an executive or government, become more similar than not as extremism increases. It's not really saying that the ideology necessarily comes to match, only that the ideology matters less than whatever horrible things are coming your way, beliefs be damned.
- nailer 4y agoIn the UK it’s the far left (Labour after it was taken over by Momentum) who’ve had major issues with antisemitism and ignored it for years until they were forced to take action. Thirty years ago it would have been the far right. So yes.
- dontlaugh 4y agoMomentum isn’t far left, the Communist Party of Britain is. Labour wasn’t taken over by Momentum, people that liked Corbyn joined Labour. And finally, antisemitism accusations were used cynically by the right of Labour for years, trying to equate anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Have a look at the Labour Files at least. So not even a little.
- nailer 4y ago> Momentum isn’t far left, the Communist Party of Britain is. If you support terror groups - and I mean in the strictest sense, as in people that attack civilians - you're on the far edge of politics. Before you shout that Corbyn was 'reaching out' to terrorists by saying they're his friends, that punishing people that killed innocent people in Brighton was a show trial, or laying wreaths at their funerals: everyone involved in Northern Ireland or the Middle East peace processes claims that Corbyn, a Labour back bencher at the time, had nothing to do with either of the Northern Ireland or the Middle East peace process. > People that liked Corbyn joined Labour Because of a Momentum campaign that cynically exploited a brief moment allowing anyone to join the Labour party for 5 pounds. > antisemitism accusations were used cynically by the right of Labour for years And obviously the far left is still denying them even after the party's own investigation found they had substance.
- MarkMarine 4y agoThis is hacker news not Facebook. If you want to argue politics go there.
- nailer 4y ago
- aaronbrethorst 4y agoThe Bruenigs are assholes but that doesn't make them "approach the intellectual fascism of the nazis"
- Grimburger 4y agoBy definition it can't be, but neither can the general theory of relativity.
- dudeinjapan 4y agoClose only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.