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It’s easy to say that if you lack the Chinese perspective. They point to the opium wars as the reason they failed to industrialize at the same time as other nat

It’s easy to say that if you lack the Chinese perspective. They point to the opium wars as the reason they failed to industrialize at the same time as other nations. And that they are still digging out of that hole to this day. With this perspective in mind, the motive to continue pushing fentanyl is clear. In the relentless Chinese narrative about their “5000 years of continuous culture”, 160 years is a blink of an eye to settle the score.

refurb 4y ago
I mean, sure but if you're a corrupt criminal gang, how high does "payback for the Opium Wars" rank compared to just making money? It's one of those "just so stories" that people love because it ties everything into a nice bow. I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but if the Opium Wars never happened does anyone believe they wouldn't be doing the same thing anyways?
- Our_Benefactors 4y ago
  Are you aware that China had to pay silver (and ONLY silver) for opium? The motivation then was arguably only “to make money” even though the indolent effects of opium addiction was clear. The suppliers of narcotics always make money. As a modern day dealer with a grudge and a playbook, why not kill two birds with one stone?
  - refurb 4y ago
    I've never encountered a situation where people need an excuse beyond "make a shit ton of money" to sell drugs. I'll bet a lot of people involved in the fentanyl trade don't even know much about the Opium Wars anyways. It's like claiming smuggling of liquor from Canada to the US during prohibition was Canada's attempt at getting back at the US for the War of 1812. Nahh.. they just wanted to make a crap ton of money.
    - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
      > I'll bet a lot of people involved in the fentanyl trade don't even know much about the Opium Wars anyways. I’ll bet you aren’t familiar with the grammar school Chinese history curriculum. Besides, as a modern kingpin, think with scale! Recruiting goes much smoother when you can sell it as “you’re a soldier for the country, fighting an undercover war”. How many companies have “make money” as their mission statement besides Amazon? The comparison to Canada and prohibition doesn’t pass the smell test. Given that the war of 1812 wasn’t predicated on getting the Canadians into a drunken stupor as a tactic of economic warfare. Oh, and as far as USA vs British East India Company, it’s all “the west” in the end.
      - Cederfjard 4y ago
        > The comparison to Canada and prohibition doesn’t pass the smell test. Given that the war of 1812 wasn’t predicated on getting the Canadians into a drunken stupor as a tactic of economic warfare. Since we’re speculating freely anyway, why does the revenge have to come in the same form as the initial affront?
    - Lio 4y ago
      Canada doesn’t need to get back at the US for the war of 1812 because Canada won the war of 1812. ;)
      - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
        Canada didn't exist in 1812. It was "upper Canada," just one of the British North American colonies.
  - Lio 4y ago
    Isn’t the reason that they payed with silver a reflection that China itself would only accept silver for goods such as tea at that time?
    - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
      Yes, so by closing the trade loop with opium, there was a large net outflow of silver in addition to many other types of goods.
  - thedailymail 4y ago
    Mark Twain made what I consider one of history's greatest puns when he described the American role in the opium trade as "Taels I win, heads you lose." (A tael was a unit of Chinese silver bullion; heads references the death penalty for drug running, which applied only to Chinese subjects for most of the opium years.)
- JusticeJuice 4y ago
  I mean the launderers just want to make money, that’s obvious enough. The argument is if the ccp is viewing this as payback by choosing to not catch the money in their banking system, or catch communication in WeChat, which they monitor. Turning a blind eye on purpose.
- sumedh 4y ago
  > compared to just making money? Making money and then feeling patriotic that you are helping China slowly destroy America because of what they did in the past.

refurb 4y ago

I mean, sure but if you're a corrupt criminal gang, how high does "payback for the Opium Wars" rank compared to just making money? It's one of those "just so stories" that people love because it ties everything into a nice bow. I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but if the Opium Wars never happened does anyone believe they wouldn't be doing the same thing anyways?

Our_Benefactors 4y ago
Are you aware that China had to pay silver (and ONLY silver) for opium? The motivation then was arguably only “to make money” even though the indolent effects of opium addiction was clear. The suppliers of narcotics always make money. As a modern day dealer with a grudge and a playbook, why not kill two birds with one stone?
- refurb 4y ago
  I've never encountered a situation where people need an excuse beyond "make a shit ton of money" to sell drugs. I'll bet a lot of people involved in the fentanyl trade don't even know much about the Opium Wars anyways. It's like claiming smuggling of liquor from Canada to the US during prohibition was Canada's attempt at getting back at the US for the War of 1812. Nahh.. they just wanted to make a crap ton of money.
  - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
    > I'll bet a lot of people involved in the fentanyl trade don't even know much about the Opium Wars anyways. I’ll bet you aren’t familiar with the grammar school Chinese history curriculum. Besides, as a modern kingpin, think with scale! Recruiting goes much smoother when you can sell it as “you’re a soldier for the country, fighting an undercover war”. How many companies have “make money” as their mission statement besides Amazon? The comparison to Canada and prohibition doesn’t pass the smell test. Given that the war of 1812 wasn’t predicated on getting the Canadians into a drunken stupor as a tactic of economic warfare. Oh, and as far as USA vs British East India Company, it’s all “the west” in the end.
    - Cederfjard 4y ago
      > The comparison to Canada and prohibition doesn’t pass the smell test. Given that the war of 1812 wasn’t predicated on getting the Canadians into a drunken stupor as a tactic of economic warfare. Since we’re speculating freely anyway, why does the revenge have to come in the same form as the initial affront?
  - Lio 4y ago
    Canada doesn’t need to get back at the US for the war of 1812 because Canada won the war of 1812. ;)
    - DiogenesKynikos 4y ago
      Canada didn't exist in 1812. It was "upper Canada," just one of the British North American colonies.
- Lio 4y ago
  Isn’t the reason that they payed with silver a reflection that China itself would only accept silver for goods such as tea at that time?
  - Our_Benefactors 4y ago
    Yes, so by closing the trade loop with opium, there was a large net outflow of silver in addition to many other types of goods.
- thedailymail 4y ago
  Mark Twain made what I consider one of history's greatest puns when he described the American role in the opium trade as "Taels I win, heads you lose." (A tael was a unit of Chinese silver bullion; heads references the death penalty for drug running, which applied only to Chinese subjects for most of the opium years.)
JusticeJuice 4y ago
I mean the launderers just want to make money, that’s obvious enough. The argument is if the ccp is viewing this as payback by choosing to not catch the money in their banking system, or catch communication in WeChat, which they monitor. Turning a blind eye on purpose.
sumedh 4y ago
> compared to just making money? Making money and then feeling patriotic that you are helping China slowly destroy America because of what they did in the past.